Deadman
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But you are burning fossil fuels now. Isn't the whole point of the electric car to eliminate that?
2022 hybrid option? yes please
- Thread starter lv2drive
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But you are burning fossil fuels now. Isn't the whole point of the electric car to eliminate that?
Calidad
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Sure!! My fossil fuel consumption today is 1/5th of what was 20yrs ago. People who are only focused on getting rid of fossil fuel use and not looking at cost / benefit are missing 1/2 the argument.
There is zero benefit for me to drop $50k to upgrade my power drop from 100amp to 300amp service when my gas bill is $60 a month or less. My solar cost me $19,000 and was covered after 3yrs of no Electric bill. $50,000 to get rid of my Gas dryer makes zero sense. I could have my underwear dry cleaned and pressed with pickup and delivery till I die for less than that.
All of my Environmental ie solar etc was to lower my costs. My vehicle choices have been to lower my fossil fuel use. My truck today averages 20mpg, 12 yrs ago my J80 got 12mpg with a tail wind. My wifes car has a 62mpg average over 70,000 miles. Her prior car averaged 22mpg. We also have focused on getting rid of or greatly reducing our commute to work. I went remote office in 2007 before it was a thing. My wife led her company to trying 1 day a week then 3 days etc. COVID has now flipped that to roughly 70% of the company can be 100% remote with access to HQ for critical stuff that can’t be Zoomed etc.
Will remote working remain after COVID? Yes!!! But with a catch!!! You will still be going into the office on a regular basis. Even going remote office in 2007 we typically were at HQ 3 times a month.
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Calidad
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Again EVs are about reducing your dependence on Gasoline. Nearly Every employer in my region gives employees free charging as a perk.
If you could buy a car that gets free fuel it makes perfect sense!
Hell even the poor new hires right out of college are picking up used Leafs and even used Fiat 500e’s for free charging at work. Many of them came from college with no vehicle to start with. Several others have old beater 4runners etc they drive to go snow skiing or camping. You can get a hardly used Fiat 500e for $3000 and drive it for years of free company power. Thats what the poor kids are doing. I would have done the same thing back in my just out of college days.
I'm not an Electrician (obviously) but couldn't you put in the charger and still have the electric dryer outlet too ... just use them one at a time (non-concurrent)? Plenty of other outlets in the house are like that. If I plugged multiple space heaters in one circuit, I'd blow it. I've blown circuit breakers by running 2 leaf blowers on one circuit, so now I put one for each arm on different circuits. Works better than a backpack blower!
I was thinking about getting a welder for the garage and putting it on my 30amp dryer circuit and doing just that.
Deadman
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The long cord to run the electric to the car would be damn expensive If it sucks that kind of juice.
Calidad
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No their is a max limit to the “potential” load per your house feed. They use some type of formula for the drop rating and the type of items/ circuits in use.
Not all houses would need to upgrade their drop.
But also as pointed out by Gordon $3000 to run a 50 amp circuit across the house to the garage isn’t a cost thats liked by many. But most laundry spaces are in or next too the garage anyway. $500 Electrician visit and $800 new gas dryer is far cheaper than $3000 50amp circuit being added.
My house is modern electric kitchen Induction cook tops thats a 50 amp circuit. I have a pool thats another 30amp circuit.
A EV charger triggers the threshold for most homes in CA with Electric kitchens and a pool or hot tub on the typical 100amp drop.
I’m pretty sure all new homes/condos are 300-600amp drops.
Yes our electric rates are high but not the highest either! I know several engineers involved in the next step of power generation in our region. The big slow down has been the grid it’s self just the last couple of years. They are working on tidal power plans which easily can exceed our local power needs and for sure exceed the delivery system. The large transmission grid has been getting upgraded for the last couple of years my neighbor is an engineer replacing or upgrading towers ie increasing their height so more power can be run across them.
For giggles my 1920 rental property is 50 amps per unit. Gas range and gas dryer. Its not possible to renovate the kitchen to Electric without upgrading the drop to the property. In that case its far less expensive given its above ground and only 18ft. Vs my 1968 house its a 80ft under ground feed from the other side of the street.
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Calidad
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Another factor to consider a plugin hybrid your typically looking at 5-10kwh charge. A full EV like the Tesla or Mach e your looking at the potential of 30-50kwh to charge.
We charge our Fusion Energi on a standard 15amp 120v wall plug. Its only charging about 5-6kwh of battery power takes a few hours over night and its good.
My moms T3 took 3 days to charge to 70% capacity on her 120v 15 amp wall plug. She had a 50 amp Hot tub circuit not being used we removed the old hot tub years ago. $600 the electrician simply updated the breakers ran a 50amp run about 20ft. Now it takes about 4-9 hours to charge the T3 to 60-70%. Keep in mind EVs your not charging them 100% range unless you need that range. If your typical daily use is say 100 miles your typically only charging the EV daily to about 60-70% range.
Natural disaster risks? Yes Tesla will actually automatically change your charge settings you might have it set to 70% but a natural disaster risk Tesla will automatically charge you to 100% range.
I’m curious to see if Ford does this as well as Tesla.
We charge our Fusion Energi on a standard 15amp 120v wall plug. Its only charging about 5-6kwh of battery power takes a few hours over night and its good.
My moms T3 took 3 days to charge to 70% capacity on her 120v 15 amp wall plug. She had a 50 amp Hot tub circuit not being used we removed the old hot tub years ago. $600 the electrician simply updated the breakers ran a 50amp run about 20ft. Now it takes about 4-9 hours to charge the T3 to 60-70%. Keep in mind EVs your not charging them 100% range unless you need that range. If your typical daily use is say 100 miles your typically only charging the EV daily to about 60-70% range.
Natural disaster risks? Yes Tesla will actually automatically change your charge settings you might have it set to 70% but a natural disaster risk Tesla will automatically charge you to 100% range.
I’m curious to see if Ford does this as well as Tesla.
carymccarr
Full Access Members
No. Not really. Most electricity that powers EV’s comes from FF’s. Highly efficient FF power plants.
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The Village down the road from me (Fairport, NY) gets hydropower from Niagara Falls & is non-profit local. A deal was cut when the Robert Moses power station was built to provide cheap power to entities in NYS like this. Base rate is about $0.04/kWhour. Sweet!
Geez I wasn't thinking unplug the dryer in the basement and run a cord out to the vehicle charger. The panel is in the garage
Not what I had in mind, not even sure what you mean. I was thinking the breaker panel is in the garage right by where you want to charge vehicle. Install a double pole double throw switch right next to panel. Wire feed to dryer into one side of switch & add a feed to an outlet for charger on other side right there. The switch would either power both off or power one at a time. That way you could never power both concurrently and no need to increase amperage to property since no load changes possible. Like I said I'm not an electrician so I'm just thinking out loud. Of course that would be a PITA so its a half assed thing.
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Deadman
Full Access Members
Wh
My panel is in my basement, my dryer is in my basement, and I have an outlet for my generator wired into my garage because the 100 foot extension cord was stupid expensive. I wouldn't want my panel in any garage in WI, the moisture would be big trouble. All my family and friends are in the basement, I'm guessing that's a WI code maybe.
We live different up north where Fuel is actually needed to keep warm. We had an entire week of -20 to -25F nights last week.
FF, Fairy Farts, they bypass all other loads on the grid and go straight to EV’s. Not quite as powerful as unicorn snot but easier to get.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Expedition Dave
Full Access Members
The adult conversation should also include taxes. B/C taxes and stuff...
*Please Note* I'm not anti-EV/Hybrid and a lot of numbers here are rough but designed to being up questions, not try to convince or sway opinion*
It varies state/county etc., but the price of gas & diesel has taxers front-loaded already in. This often includes a sales tax as well.
This averages 10-33% +/- of your dollar per gallon with diesel often being even more (varies state to state).
All of this $$$ goes places that will miss the eventual deficit. This deficit WILL be made up elsewhere (some EV registrants in some states are already getting a yearly registration bill).
This does not include your wage taxes to subsidize EVs, Hy-brids, etc. and the electricity stations that are popping up in rest stops, homes, sidewalks etc.
I guess fresh taxes can be pumped into whatever juice pump at the rest area you're using or in your homes somehow but how will that $$$ be directed to fixing roads? Will that be per house with an EV, or to every house regardless (this) just like people w/o children have their taxes directed to pay for schools they don't partake in?
I expect to see:
More road tolls in the future; higher taxations imposed on your fuel dollar per gallon (which will help chase us to more efficient vehicles); I also expect to see higher state & county taxes to build EV infrastructure; I expect to see higher electricity costs.
*Please Note* I'm not anti-EV/Hybrid and a lot of numbers here are rough but designed to being up questions, not try to convince or sway opinion*
It varies state/county etc., but the price of gas & diesel has taxers front-loaded already in. This often includes a sales tax as well.
This averages 10-33% +/- of your dollar per gallon with diesel often being even more (varies state to state).
All of this $$$ goes places that will miss the eventual deficit. This deficit WILL be made up elsewhere (some EV registrants in some states are already getting a yearly registration bill).
This does not include your wage taxes to subsidize EVs, Hy-brids, etc. and the electricity stations that are popping up in rest stops, homes, sidewalks etc.
I guess fresh taxes can be pumped into whatever juice pump at the rest area you're using or in your homes somehow but how will that $$$ be directed to fixing roads? Will that be per house with an EV, or to every house regardless (this) just like people w/o children have their taxes directed to pay for schools they don't partake in?
I expect to see:
More road tolls in the future; higher taxations imposed on your fuel dollar per gallon (which will help chase us to more efficient vehicles); I also expect to see higher state & county taxes to build EV infrastructure; I expect to see higher electricity costs.
Yup, my wife is a contract lobbyist for some pretty big name people. Power company’s are pushing to stop the solar subsidies and states are pushing for EV taxes to pay their share of the roads. It will be a battle for many years to come.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Calidad
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Most states on the EV thing already have EV taxes tied to the registration paid yearly. Recent data shows most EV owners also drive less than the average driver.
But yes the tax pump has been a concern even with ICE vehicles getting better mileage its a concern. Oregon has been testing mileage based taxing at the pump for many years. So far its far more complicated than anticipated.
JExpedition07
That One Member
EV taxes with the registration don’t cover their share of road taxes. Look at what we pay in road tax at the pump, states will get their money from EV owners soon. Still will save you money, just won’t be able to evade road taxes forever.
Calidad
Full Access Members
Do you have an EV in a state with a use tax on the registration? If you do and look at your yearly mileage and the use tax its nearly identical to the pump tax for the same mileage minus the environmental taxes which the pump taxes also includes.
I’m sure there are states under taxing now Texas likely is till their infrastructure fails.
By the way state road engineers don’t count cars as a wear factor on roads. The wear factor are 3+ axle heavy traffic counts.
JExpedition07
That One Member
Was unaware some states were doing that already. Many aren’t really taxing them.
OP
OP
lv2drive
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true... i'm a diesel junky, but i'd still take the + miniEV with 570 tq with 24mpg, nevermind the HP increase... there's no comparison.
i think ford basically skipped over the diesel & went straight for the EV... i think it's the "smarter" move. it's also optically the "in thing" so the marketing team probably loves it.
I'm all for the EV or whatever the optimal tech is... and i personally love the extra power & torque of the EV hybrids i've driven...
But the realist in me can't ignore real world overall environmental benefit of the current EV tech, or it's limitations, so this OP was to get an idea of everyone's thoughts & experiences in their respective universes...
My take is that it will obviously increase efficiency of power sources & vehicles, while reducing our overall fossil fuel consumption & emissions... which is a necessary step, i can't argue... but ultimately, it simply shifts which natural resource we are the harvesting / producing, and introduces a new tech that will have a "yet to be known" environmental impact once production increases as it will inevitably.
forward thinking, i am very curious to see where the hydrogen or alt techs go, as i think there will be better options in the future.
for now i'll take this one though while we build the other ones.
i think ford basically skipped over the diesel & went straight for the EV... i think it's the "smarter" move. it's also optically the "in thing" so the marketing team probably loves it.
I'm all for the EV or whatever the optimal tech is... and i personally love the extra power & torque of the EV hybrids i've driven...
But the realist in me can't ignore real world overall environmental benefit of the current EV tech, or it's limitations, so this OP was to get an idea of everyone's thoughts & experiences in their respective universes...
My take is that it will obviously increase efficiency of power sources & vehicles, while reducing our overall fossil fuel consumption & emissions... which is a necessary step, i can't argue... but ultimately, it simply shifts which natural resource we are the harvesting / producing, and introduces a new tech that will have a "yet to be known" environmental impact once production increases as it will inevitably.
forward thinking, i am very curious to see where the hydrogen or alt techs go, as i think there will be better options in the future.
for now i'll take this one though while we build the other ones.