Adding Rear 3rd Row Speakers
- Thread starter AndyGJ
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tmilam
New Member
Hey guys, 1st post here as I just bought my wife an '08 King Ranch EL in anticipation of the arrival of twins to our family including our 3 year old daughter. I love the vehicle but the lack of speakers in the 3rd row was absolutely apparent when I sat in the back row with my daughter and is a situation I'd like to resolve without costing a small fortune. I want it to look very clean but deliver adequate sound to the rear of the vehicle. My local Audio Xpress store quoted me a rough estimate of >$600 for which seems pretty excessive considering it's 2 2.25" speakers in a similar setup to the pictures shown in this thread.
The 1" tweeters in the D pillars seem to be the least expensive option as they would not require an additional amp, but the installer at AX said they wouldn't put out much sound at all and that I'd likely be disappointed. I was wondering what AndyGJ, jmciver, and bhaycraft felt about the results of the efforts/expenses vs the improvement of sound quality in the rear of their expy's. Thanks for any input you guys may have.
Milam
The 1" tweeters in the D pillars seem to be the least expensive option as they would not require an additional amp, but the installer at AX said they wouldn't put out much sound at all and that I'd likely be disappointed. I was wondering what AndyGJ, jmciver, and bhaycraft felt about the results of the efforts/expenses vs the improvement of sound quality in the rear of their expy's. Thanks for any input you guys may have.
Milam
Milam - you will be very pleased with the sound output. Since there is a sub in the back, the small speakers blend the sound nicely. The ones I purchase put out a full range of sound, but not much on the bottom end. All the Audio shops that I went to with my speakers that I bought from Ford told me that they would not put out enough sound.
The key is to purchase an additional amp for the install for two reasons (I was told). First you don't want to over power the factory amp with the head unit and blow something there that you would have to replace out of warranty. I have the Sync/Navigation system, and that head unit would be very expensive if I went back with a factory unit. Second, by adding a second amp, the shop was able to set the gain on the amp to make the output balanced from these new speakers with the middle row speakers.
I was told that I may lose some power to the second row speakers just by tapping into the same power feed off the rear channel of the factory amp. I was afraid that would mess up the fader balance at the factory head unit.
Anyway, for what it is worth, I spent about $700 for factory panels and speakers, aftermarket amp & wiring harness & tap to pull signal from factory amp. I have been extremely pleased with the entire result and would have not changed a thing about my install. I love the factory look of the setup.
The key is to purchase an additional amp for the install for two reasons (I was told). First you don't want to over power the factory amp with the head unit and blow something there that you would have to replace out of warranty. I have the Sync/Navigation system, and that head unit would be very expensive if I went back with a factory unit. Second, by adding a second amp, the shop was able to set the gain on the amp to make the output balanced from these new speakers with the middle row speakers.
I was told that I may lose some power to the second row speakers just by tapping into the same power feed off the rear channel of the factory amp. I was afraid that would mess up the fader balance at the factory head unit.
Anyway, for what it is worth, I spent about $700 for factory panels and speakers, aftermarket amp & wiring harness & tap to pull signal from factory amp. I have been extremely pleased with the entire result and would have not changed a thing about my install. I love the factory look of the setup.
tmilam
New Member
Thanks AndyGJ for the reply. I asked the shop why the Navigator had them without a 2nd amp; they told me that it had a bigger amp that's THX certified. I wonder if I could find one to replace the OEM head unit amp in the Expy from a salvage yard or something? Either way $700 is a chunk o' change for only two 2.25" speakers when all I want is to be able to hear the music or movie and not necessarily audiophile sound. Maybe I'm a lil cheap. What did the Navigator D pillar panels look like in comparison to the Expy's?
The work at the shop for the extra parts and install charges were approx $400. The parts from Ford (the Navigator D Pillars) match the interior color EXACTLY - something I was dead set on having. I didn't want this to look like an aftermarket install or have it wind up being a hack job on my nice new interior. The D-pillar INCLUDED the two 2" speakers (THx ceritified by the way).
The D-pillars were $160 for one side and $140 for the other - no idea why the difference in cost. You can get a THx certified amp that bhaycraft found and was considering, but the amp alone would set you back about $800 before any install or speaker costs. It would turn the entire system into a THx sound system -- more than I was after in both cost and sound quality for the kids.
At the end of the day, you will probably be in the range of $500 to $700 for this if you use a shop for the install. You can obviously save some money and do it yourself if you have the time and skills...I didn't have either!
I hope Ford comes to their senses and starts putting these in as factory for all vehicles with any 3rd row seating when a premium sound system of any kind is installed at factory. Part cost could not be more than $150 to them and that could be tacked on to the sound system upgrade package. I would have gladly paid for this on the front end. When you consider that most folks finance vehicles, the increase on the monthly note would be less than $1/month at the end of the day. GM has this in all vehicles as a standard feature to 3rd row vehicles.
Hope that helps.
Andy.
The D-pillars were $160 for one side and $140 for the other - no idea why the difference in cost. You can get a THx certified amp that bhaycraft found and was considering, but the amp alone would set you back about $800 before any install or speaker costs. It would turn the entire system into a THx sound system -- more than I was after in both cost and sound quality for the kids.
At the end of the day, you will probably be in the range of $500 to $700 for this if you use a shop for the install. You can obviously save some money and do it yourself if you have the time and skills...I didn't have either!
I hope Ford comes to their senses and starts putting these in as factory for all vehicles with any 3rd row seating when a premium sound system of any kind is installed at factory. Part cost could not be more than $150 to them and that could be tacked on to the sound system upgrade package. I would have gladly paid for this on the front end. When you consider that most folks finance vehicles, the increase on the monthly note would be less than $1/month at the end of the day. GM has this in all vehicles as a standard feature to 3rd row vehicles.
Hope that helps.
Andy.
tmilam
New Member
$800 for the THX amp alone is impressive to say the least. Needless to say that I won't be going that route. I can find a decent 50wx2 channel amp to power the speakers for about $90. I went to our F/L/M dealer and those were the prices I received for the D pillars as well but couldn't tell if that price included the speaker shrouds and speakers, because they priced these items as an additional $90 or so on top of the $300 for the D pillars panels. If the D pillars' price included these items as well that would be easier to swallow. I also wonder if these pieces are compatible in the regular Expy and the EL as well. I guess bhaycraft would know that answer--still hoping to hear from him. Thanks again for your input.
Milam:
The D pillars for the Regular vs EL are different. It is due to where the seatbelt anchors are located behind the D-pillar. It is much lower on the EL than the Regular since the attachment point is direct over the passenger's shouldler.
I have some pictures of the D pillars with the speakers before they were installed, so I'll see if I can post them for you.
The D pillars for the Regular vs EL are different. It is due to where the seatbelt anchors are located behind the D-pillar. It is much lower on the EL than the Regular since the attachment point is direct over the passenger's shouldler.
I have some pictures of the D pillars with the speakers before they were installed, so I'll see if I can post them for you.
tmilam
New Member
Nice. Thank you very much. That helps immensely.
Sorry for my delayed reply......
I went the entire aftermarket route, replacing all of the speakers, including the rear sub, and installing the extra tweeters in the rear, all powered by two new amps installed under the two second row captan chairs (sounds way better than stock BTW).
But if you don't want to go that far, I think using aftermarket tweeters with a separate amp to power them, is the right way to go. The tweeters will not provide any mid range back there, but the sub located back there will help to offset the lack of any bass from the tweeters. As I posted above, I was amazed at how much better the system sounds with the tweeters in the rear. It didn't matter whether you were sitting in the 3rd row (where the biggest difference was heard) or even up front in the drivers seat.
I did the install myself (I bought all of my stuff from Crutchfield & Sonic Electronix). It was not that bad, it just takes time. If I were only adding the rear speakers, it would have been less work than re-doing the entire system as I did. For what it is worth though, I would recommend replacing the factory speakers with aftermarket. Even with your stock head unit, the system will sound so much better and replacing the speakers with the stuff from Crutchfield is pretty much plug and play.
I went the entire aftermarket route, replacing all of the speakers, including the rear sub, and installing the extra tweeters in the rear, all powered by two new amps installed under the two second row captan chairs (sounds way better than stock BTW).
But if you don't want to go that far, I think using aftermarket tweeters with a separate amp to power them, is the right way to go. The tweeters will not provide any mid range back there, but the sub located back there will help to offset the lack of any bass from the tweeters. As I posted above, I was amazed at how much better the system sounds with the tweeters in the rear. It didn't matter whether you were sitting in the 3rd row (where the biggest difference was heard) or even up front in the drivers seat.
I did the install myself (I bought all of my stuff from Crutchfield & Sonic Electronix). It was not that bad, it just takes time. If I were only adding the rear speakers, it would have been less work than re-doing the entire system as I did. For what it is worth though, I would recommend replacing the factory speakers with aftermarket. Even with your stock head unit, the system will sound so much better and replacing the speakers with the stuff from Crutchfield is pretty much plug and play.
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Upgraded Speakers for 1st & 2nd row
JMCIVER:
Can you tell me what parts you used to upgrade your speakers in the first & second row? I might look at doing that down the road to improve the overall quality of the sound system over the OEM speakers.
I really need to do this in my Shelby GT - those speakers are terrible even with the Mach 500 sound system. Just curious what you went with so that I can benefit from some of your research.
Thanks,
JMCIVER:
Can you tell me what parts you used to upgrade your speakers in the first & second row? I might look at doing that down the road to improve the overall quality of the sound system over the OEM speakers.
I really need to do this in my Shelby GT - those speakers are terrible even with the Mach 500 sound system. Just curious what you went with so that I can benefit from some of your research.
Thanks,
Here are the parts for my system:
Front Speakers:
Infinity Reference 6832cf (component speakers)
Rear Speakers:
Infinity Reference 6832cf (2-way speakers)
3rd Row Speakers:
Infinity Reference 1031t (1" tweeters)
8" Subwoofer:
Polk Audio db840
Amplifiers:
Kicker 08ZX200.4 (35w x 4; 2 of them) - This model has been discontinued now though, but you can probably still find them on eBay or something similar
The front and rear door speakers were direct replacements (size 5x7/6x8). For the tweeters in the front doors, which are part of the component system, I had to enlarge the stock openings a bit with a Dremel tool, but then they fit like a glove. For the 3rd row tweeters I just used a hole drill bit to drill the hole. I mounted the two amplifiers under the second row captain chairs. Even though the sub is an 8" sub, Ford uses a speaker that has mounting holes that are actually closer to 9" so I made an adapter out of a piece of MDF in order to install the new sub in the factory sub box.
One amp powered the front and rear speakers. The other amp powered the sub and 3rd row speakers. I also ran new, quality, speaker wire between the speakers and amplifiers so that noise would not be an issue. Everything sounds so much crisper, clearer and louder (although I don't really play my music loud). The bass is much better as well even though it is still an 8" subwoofer. The bass will not be heard 10 blocks down the street, but I wasn't looking for that anyway. I have been so impressed with the improved sound quality over the OEM system (and I thought the OEM system sounded pretty good) that I am considering getting satellite radio for better, clearer content since my upgraded system really amplifies the "flaws" in standard and even HD radio.
Below are a few pics...
Front Speakers:
Infinity Reference 6832cf (component speakers)
Rear Speakers:
Infinity Reference 6832cf (2-way speakers)
3rd Row Speakers:
Infinity Reference 1031t (1" tweeters)
8" Subwoofer:
Polk Audio db840
Amplifiers:
Kicker 08ZX200.4 (35w x 4; 2 of them) - This model has been discontinued now though, but you can probably still find them on eBay or something similar
The front and rear door speakers were direct replacements (size 5x7/6x8). For the tweeters in the front doors, which are part of the component system, I had to enlarge the stock openings a bit with a Dremel tool, but then they fit like a glove. For the 3rd row tweeters I just used a hole drill bit to drill the hole. I mounted the two amplifiers under the second row captain chairs. Even though the sub is an 8" sub, Ford uses a speaker that has mounting holes that are actually closer to 9" so I made an adapter out of a piece of MDF in order to install the new sub in the factory sub box.
One amp powered the front and rear speakers. The other amp powered the sub and 3rd row speakers. I also ran new, quality, speaker wire between the speakers and amplifiers so that noise would not be an issue. Everything sounds so much crisper, clearer and louder (although I don't really play my music loud). The bass is much better as well even though it is still an 8" subwoofer. The bass will not be heard 10 blocks down the street, but I wasn't looking for that anyway. I have been so impressed with the improved sound quality over the OEM system (and I thought the OEM system sounded pretty good) that I am considering getting satellite radio for better, clearer content since my upgraded system really amplifies the "flaws" in standard and even HD radio.
Below are a few pics...
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Under the captains chairs
I see you mounted the amps under the captains chairs. Did your seats fold down flat before because my 05 has the 40/20/40 second row and if yours still fold flat than that would save me some hassle of trying to stuff my 12 amp and capacitor in the rear panel on the back left false panel.
I see you mounted the amps under the captains chairs. Did your seats fold down flat before because my 05 has the 40/20/40 second row and if yours still fold flat than that would save me some hassle of trying to stuff my 12 amp and capacitor in the rear panel on the back left false panel.
Mine are in the back panel, but I regularly carry a small 300psi tire pump underneath one of the second row seats (captains chairs in 2nd row) inside its original box and they close fine, so any small amp should fit easily.
Hope that helps!
Hope that helps!
The captain chairs will almost go completely flat when in the "cargo" position with the amps installed under them now. If I had to estimate, I would say I lost an inch or so of travel for the seats to go completely flat when in the cargo position. It is not enough to make a significant difference if I ever need to put the seats in the cargo position to carry stuff (which is rare for me anyway). Otherwise the seats do not touch the amps when in the up (pictured) or down/normal position. I am not sure how the seats fold or how much clearance you would have in an '05 though.
TXFRDOwner
Full Access Members
Do you have the part numbers for both pillars (w/ speaker) handy ?
GAINMOB
Full Access Members
@ jmciver...what are the measurements for your amps? i was thinking about doing the same thing..just havent tried to see if it'll fit...
GAINMOB
Full Access Members
found it...Dimensions: 10-1/4"L x 9-5/8"W x 2-1/8"H
...now to see what mine measures...whenever i get another truck...i'm taking out the 3rd row...
...now to see what mine measures...whenever i get another truck...i'm taking out the 3rd row...
GAINMOB
Full Access Members
does anyone know if they will fit in 2nd gens? i may just stick with idea i posted on 1st page...
KINGDELL91
Member
the glass work looks pretty nice but, with that 18 you got back there its kinda pointless the main cabin area would be best focal point for your mids and highs IMO
