Buying parts for timing job on my basket case Navigator, rockers and tappets have gone way up in price! Fix it???

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Brons2

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Hey folks,

So, 2010 Navigator here, think it's time to finally bite the bullet on the timing job. I've been getting startup rattle for a while now with what sounds like the chains hitting each other. It also will rattle if you powerbrake it at the drive through, although that has a different sort of sound and I think it's the phasers. It was idling a little rough with 5w20, when I first got it in 2020, mainly when you come off the freeway after a 30+ minute trip, I knew about all the timing issues when I bought it, so first thing when I got home after experienced the rough idle, I dropped the oil and filled it up with 10w40. . WOW. Idled butter smooth! I guess that brings up the oil pressure enough that it idles pretty smoothly even after being on the freeway for a while. It idles like butter after you take the offramp and come to your first stop. So I felt I could kind of put it off for a while because it's running so well and no codes are being thrown.

With Covid I wasn't really driving that much and so it was fine. It still rattled when you power brake in the drive through but otherwise it seemed happy enough, so I bided my time. I have been acquiring the parts piece by piece, I have the metal tensioners, and both sets of guides, the chain, the sprockets and the Melling M360 high volume oil pump. Went to see this week about the solenoids, phasers, rockers and tappets/lifters. Oh my goodness they have gone way up in price. $700 for the full set of 24? On top of $400 for phasers and $140 for solenoids? And the money I already spent fot the other parts?

Over time a number of other things have gone wrong with my rig, and I've been getting more discouraged. BOTH the blend door actuators started tapping and MAN that was a big, and somewhat discouraging job, in fact, on the lower one, I never got one of the screws back in, but it seemed to work so I left it alone and put it back together. Not ideal, but, it is what it is. Then one of the heater hoses blew up right after I got home from the first trip, thankfully did not leave us stranded! I have all the other hoses to replace also just waiting on the timing job to do that. But there's more, much more

Anyway then all my ABS lights came on sometime in fall 2021 I think it was? I have verified ABS is not working by skidding it in dry conditions and wet. I tried flushing and bleeding the system, no dice. I bought pads and rotors in the off chance it might fix it. Then somewhere along the way I around the same time I broke my leg in a bicycle crash. While I was healing from that, and then as my wife was driving me around one of the pads got down to metal on metal, so I had no choice, I had to pay one of the mechanics at my brother's used car lot to fix it. Since my BIL owns the place, he gave me half off the normal posted labor rate. And he had the mechanic followed all my OCD instructions and the results were really good, even to this date, braking action is smooth as butter. So I went ahead and also let them diagnose After a professional diagnosis they said the ABS module is not working. Dealer part only or used. Tried a used one and had the same mechanic code it to the system - no dice. Put the old one back in and re-coded again. I'm only interested new one now, I think, but yikes the cheapest one of those I've been able to find is $750.

And then that's not the only issue with the brakes - the pedal effort has always seemed high, but, I can make the brakes skid on demand, so, I've kind of ignored it. But it makes it impossible to do any towing, because I cannot overcome the braking force to stop effectively when towing, so I have avoided doing so. Even when the trailer's empty it makes the effort too high. So I just avoid it, but that's not what I had in mind having a large V8 powered domestic SUV. I don't know if maybe the brake booster needs to be changed or how you would troubleshoot that.

Then there's the transmission. I left the car at home for over a month last year and now the torque converter doesn't lock up. I'm pretty sure it's full, so I don't know what's going on. Fluid comes out looking new when you do a drain and fill. This is affecting the mileage, which wasn't a problem, but recently we moved farther out of town and now I'm feeling it more that the mileage has slipped.

Thought about getting some new to me front seats from LKQ but that's another expense. The existing ones are pretty worn.

The passenger side front power lock has ceased functioning also, so I have to unlock the door for my wife every time.

I thought about giving up when I saw the local Toyota dealer had a $359/mo lease with $3K up front. But then that's on some unicorn truck that they don't have and probably won't have, it was some national offer and they never get trucks in with that spec. Shopped around some more, and well, I don't think most dealers have come down from Covid. Chevy was about the same, oh, here's a $499 lease deal but the truck is not here. bla bla bla. Ram has 0% for 72 months but it's 0% of a lot of freaking money. Used vehicles are no better, trucks that used to cost $30K new are now selling for that except they're 4-5 years old. I mean something like a F150 supercrew XLT 2.7 4x2. You could get those in the low 30s at my local dealer before Covid.

So now I have a choice. Do I throw another $1200 into a timing job that doesn't even fix my braking and transmission issues? Leave the lifters and rockers out of it as long as they don't have excess clearance? That would be a big help.

They say it's almost always cheaper to keep the vehicle that you have, but, man I'm seeing a lot of dollar signs. Maybe I'll just keep driving it until it's really broke as in, won't move, and then sell it for scrap.
 

bodabdan

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I would look at approaching this differently. Do you love it? If so, fix it.
Does it make you mad every time you think about it? Send it away or put it in the pasture.
If you fix it, rather than buying a piece at a time, you might be better off to buy a parts vehicle. I just missed a low mileage running rollover for $2k.
My local engine builder will rebuild a 5.4 3v for about $2500. Not that much more than your parts bill for just timing stuff and gaskets.
Parts stores need a profit to survive. People with parts cars just usually want it gone and are happy to get a few bucks for it.
Those are my thoughts, but in the end it's up to you.
 
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Brons2

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I'm gone to Carolina in my mind!
20230406_080349.jpg
(with apologies to James Taylor)
 
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Brons2

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I would look at approaching this differently. Do you love it? If so, fix it.
Does it make you mad every time you think about it? Send it away or put it in the pasture.
If you fix it, rather than buying a piece at a time, you might be better off to buy a parts vehicle. I just missed a low mileage running rollover for $2k.
My local engine builder will rebuild a 5.4 3v for about $2500. Not that much more than your parts bill for just timing stuff and gaskets.
Parts stores need a profit to survive. People with parts cars just usually want it gone and are happy to get a few bucks for it.
Those are my thoughts, but in the end it's up to you.
It doesn't burn a drop of oil in a 4000-5000 mile oil change interval. (I don't let it go any longer than that). I don't think anything is wrong with the bottom end. I found that an online Ford parts site had a complete cylinder heads for just over $600 each net after core return. The heads include the rockers, lifters and cams and are new. I'd probably go that route rather than rebuild the whole thing, if I really wanted to.

passenger side/bank 1

driver side/bank 2

I think overall, I would actually like to fix it, the problem is the time involved, have a busy family schedule that doesn't allow me entire Saturdays to be wrenching on the Navigator. I think for now I'll just get the phasers and solenoids and not change out the rockers and tappets. The top end of the valve train is dead silent when at operating temp, I can hear the injectors above the noise of the engine. Maybe I'll regret it later but it's a lot easier to take off the valve covers than pull off the whole front of the engine.

As for the ABS issue I'm going to look for a reman ABS module rather than new OEM, I think. There are some that are more reasonably priced and come with lifetime warranty.

I only have problems with the air suspension in colder weather. Something seems to get stuck, the motor always comes on but does not inflate. If I remote start it three or four times though it usually airs back up eventually. Hopefully the fact that it's April will buy me some time. I did go ahead and disable the easy entry feature where it deflates itself somewhat when you park. Maybe that will help.
 

bodabdan

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I have been looking for a new head, thanks for the link!
Sounds to me like you love this expy more than you hate it, you know what you have to do now.
 

Herby

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I did a timing job on my 2007 Expy in 2019. Now I have to have the rockers and lash adjusters to change as the tapping sound has started. Should have done everything back then. Oh well. Ride has been very reliable thus far and I am still ahead of the game. Have you seen the price for a Stealth Edition Expy lately!!!!!
 
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