Decision Dilemma: Keeping or Parting Ways with Our 2019 Expedition Max – Seeking Insight and Opinions

[wakeboarder]

For the harsh ride, have the shocks ever been replaced? The non-CCD shocks are known for leaking early. If it was me, I would replace them with Bilstein’s.

 

[ROBERT BONNER]

As I wrote in another post, I find myself in a similar dilemma. '20 XLT FX4 MAX with 45K on it. I've decided that my transmission problems are infrequent enough that I can live with them until they get worse. I've mitigated the wastegate rattle with springs. I'll run it until something comes apart, then I'll replace/rebuild whatever up to and including the Engine and Transmission. I plan on getting a 4 poster, and I'm retired; so, I can do whatever is needed. The good news about ever higher new vehicle costs, the relative price of working on them yourself seems to be dropping as a ratio of the residual values.

I'm just frustrated that the Automotive Engineering profession has managed to slip so far after making terrific gains in previous decades. It's even more frustrating when you realize that 60% of the $80-120K that people are giving for these vehicles goes into Product Development. For that much coin, they could do a better job.

I will point out that there are departments at Ford that are doing their jobs. The aluminum bodies on these vehicles are absolutely state of the art. If 25 years ago you said that Ford or anyone else would be marketing vehicles of this size with the torsional stiffness that these vehicles have, you would have been laughed out of the room. From a build quality standpoint, both of my late models are at or near 0 Things Gone Wrong. 25 years ago it was typical for vehicles to have as many factory generated TGW's as Engineering TGW's. Reading the forums like this one, nearly all of the complaints are product engineering related, meaning that even through the pandemic and parts shortages, the manufacturing teams are doing an outstanding job of building these ever more complex trucks correctly.

 

[Michael Shepherd]

It meets family needs as we have 5 kids but has a harsh ride, frequent interior issues, and poor reliability, including a several rebuilt rear ends, Cam Phaser tear down, and a full transmission rebuild.

Since you are unlikely to find 0% interest these days, I am going to use some Dave Ramsy logic and say that with 5-kids, until you are in a position to pay cash for the replacement, seems like you really need to hang on to it for a couple more years - or at least until after the current election cycle is well past.

 

[Scottorama]

I also had this choice, as my 2018 max xlt has been a pain in the ass to own.... so many issues.....cam phasers, all 4 shocks went bed, bad wheel bearing, suspicious transmission, phantom check engine lights, and so much more.... So this past weekend i said goodbye to ford and bought a 2024 suburban premier, and all i can say is I wish i had done it sooner..... suburban is so much nicer, quiter, rides better, looks better, there is just no comparison. Chevy dealer let me buy is using gm supplier pricing, which knocked over $4000 off sticker price.... and i could get it in red, which ford doesn't even offer anymore.

 

[Hellwig]

I also had this choice, as my 2018 max xlt has been a pain in the ass to own.... so many issues.....cam phasers, all 4 shocks went bed, bad wheel bearing, suspicious transmission, phantom check engine lights, and so much more.... So this past weekend i said goodbye to ford and bought a 2024 suburban premier, and all i can say is I wish i had done it sooner..... suburban is so much nicer, quiter, rides better, looks better, there is just no comparison. Chevy dealer let me buy is using gm supplier pricing, which knocked over $4000 off sticker price.... and i could get it in red, which ford doesn't even offer anymore.

2025 suburban is much better, but I understand you couldn't tolerate the 2018 expedition anymore.

 

[dlcorbett]

I also had this choice, as my 2018 max xlt has been a pain in the ass to own.... so many issues.....cam phasers, all 4 shocks went bed, bad wheel bearing, suspicious transmission, phantom check engine lights, and so much more.... So this past weekend i said goodbye to ford and bought a 2024 suburban premier, and all i can say is I wish i had done it sooner..... suburban is so much nicer, quiter, rides better, looks better, there is just no comparison. Chevy dealer let me buy is using gm supplier pricing, which knocked over $4000 off sticker price.... and i could get it in red, which ford doesn't even offer anymore.

The suburban is riding on a platform that's only 3 yrs old, compared to the expys 10 yr platform. I would choose the chevy over the Toyota, only because toyota went backwards on the platform. The 25 expy will be on a newer platform so it SHOULD b even nicer than the 25 gms.

 

[Hellwig]

The suburban is riding on a platform that's only 3 yrs old, compared to the expys 10 yr platform. I would choose the chevy over the Toyota, only because toyota went backwards on the platform. The 25 expy will be on a newer platform so it SHOULD b even nicer than the 25 gms.

I'd rather purchase a 2024 expedition than a 2025 model year, considering all the quality issues gen 4 expedition has starting from year 2018. At least Ford has fixed most of the major quality issues for gen 4.

 

[dlcorbett]

I'd rather purchase a 2024 expedition than a 2025 model year, considering all the quality issues gen 4 expedition has starting from year 2018. At least Ford has fixed most of the major quality issues for gen 4.

Yea the 4th gens build quality is somewhat lacking. Every 3rd gen expy I've been in had a more solid feeling than the 4th gens,with barely any squeaks or rattles (outside of the jittery body) in comparison. Still, upon release, nothing was really as nice in the class that was truck based. I will say every post refresh expy/lincoln felt great though but it's still lacking compared to the jeep and gm, but again they benchmarked the ford(lincoln) so they have no excuse to not feel better. I'd take a post refresh nav over an Escalade or gw just for how nice the Interior feel and setup is, it's just the build quality and rough road ride that needs fixed. My 20 nav with 90k miles, outside the random engine safe mode popping up after 12+ hours of driving and tranny shifting, had been extremely solid...same for my 18 expy too when I had it (it went to the dealer many times, but not for any drive or mechanical issues).

 

[2018ExpyPlatinum]

I also had this choice, as my 2018 max xlt has been a pain in the ass to own.... so many issues.....cam phasers, all 4 shocks went bed, bad wheel bearing, suspicious transmission, phantom check engine lights, and so much more.... So this past weekend i said goodbye to ford and bought a 2024 suburban premier, and all i can say is I wish i had done it sooner..... suburban is so much nicer, quiter, rides better, looks better, there is just no comparison. Chevy dealer let me buy is using gm supplier pricing, which knocked over $4000 off sticker price.... and i could get it in red, which ford doesn't even offer anymore.

My Local Cadillac/GMC store called me. They just took in a 2023 Tahoe High Country on trade with 9K miles. Lady wanted a diesel and a yukon for her travelling. It's beautiful, literally brand new, and about $10K below what a new one would be. Soooo tempting.

 

[Fastcar]

You gotta to decide if it is need or want. Also these things are super expensive now.

 

[BlakeMAX2019]

I also had this choice, as my 2018 max xlt has been a pain in the ass to own.... so many issues.....cam phasers, all 4 shocks went bed, bad wheel bearing, suspicious transmission, phantom check engine lights, and so much more.... So this past weekend i said goodbye to ford and bought a 2024 suburban premier, and all i can say is I wish i had done it sooner..... suburban is so much nicer, quiter, rides better, looks better, there is just no comparison. Chevy dealer let me buy is using gm supplier pricing, which knocked over $4000 off sticker price.... and i could get it in red, which ford doesn't even offer anymore.

I forgot mention the shocks leaking at 20kmi. The wife rented a Suburban the last time the MAX was in the shop and its night and day in comfort and ride. Everything about the Suburban is better than the MAX. The issue I’ve heard though is the engine end up blowing up, some with 1000 miles on them due to defective valves due to the God awful AFM.

 

[BlakeMAX2019]

My Local Cadillac/GMC store called me. They just took in a 2023 Tahoe High Country on trade with 9K miles. Lady wanted a diesel and a yukon for her travelling. It's beautiful, literally brand new, and about $10K below what a new one would be. Soooo tempting.

Very tempting however I can’t get over the $80k plus high interest rates, kills it for me. The Tahoe is very nice tho!

 

[BlakeMAX2019]

You gotta to decide if it is need or want. Also these things are super expensive now.

With 7 people, sports gear, friends etc to tote around. There’s not much out there for a family our size. You have the MAX, suburban/yukon xl, or minivans….id love to get a Minivan for the wife but she already had 2 before the MAX and she won’t go back.

 

[BlakeMAX2019]

The suburban is riding on a platform that's only 3 yrs old, compared to the expys 10 yr platform. I would choose the chevy over the Toyota, only because toyota went backwards on the platform. The 25 expy will be on a newer platform so it SHOULD b even nicer than the 25 gms.

First year cars scare me though, not to mention the entry $ is so high nowadays

 

[BlakeMAX2019]

Since you are unlikely to find 0% interest these days, I am going to use some Dave Ramsy logic and say that with 5-kids, until you are in a position to pay cash for the replacement, seems like you really need to hang on to it for a couple more years - or at least until after the current election cycle is well past.

Haha yeah you’re never gonna find 0% anymore…tough going for prices on anything nowadays let alone cars. So damn pricey!

 

[BlakeMAX2019]

As I wrote in another post, I find myself in a similar dilemma. '20 XLT FX4 MAX with 45K on it. I've decided that my transmission problems are infrequent enough that I can live with them until they get worse. I've mitigated the wastegate rattle with springs. I'll run it until something comes apart, then I'll replace/rebuild whatever up to and including the Engine and Transmission. I plan on getting a 4 poster, and I'm retired; so, I can do whatever is needed. The good news about ever higher new vehicle costs, the relative price of working on them yourself seems to be dropping as a ratio of the residual values.

I'm just frustrated that the Automotive Engineering profession has managed to slip so far after making terrific gains in previous decades. It's even more frustrating when you realize that 60% of the $80-120K that people are giving for these vehicles goes into Product Development. For that much coin, they could do a better job.

I will point out that there are departments at Ford that are doing their jobs. The aluminum bodies on these vehicles are absolutely state of the art. If 25 years ago you said that Ford or anyone else would be marketing vehicles of this size with the torsional stiffness that these vehicles have, you would have been laughed out of the room. From a build quality standpoint, both of my late models are at or near 0 Things Gone Wrong. 25 years ago it was typical for vehicles to have as many factory generated TGW's as Engineering TGW's. Reading the forums like this one, nearly all of the complaints are product engineering related, meaning that even through the pandemic and parts shortages, the manufacturing teams are doing an outstanding job of building these ever more complex trucks correctly.

Overall it’s an impressive vehicle when it doesn’t break. If the dealer experience was better it wouldn’t be such a big deal…still a pain but less of one if they offered comparable loaners or rentals.

 

[BlakeMAX2019]

For the harsh ride, have the shocks ever been replaced? The non-CCD shocks are known for leaking early. If it was me, I would replace them with Bilstein’s.

The fronts were replaced under warranty due to leaking. I guess I find it hard to have a brand new vehicle to have to get all brand new shocks but I’ve heard of people doing that. Are the Bilsteins that much better ride?

 

[ROBERT BONNER]

The fronts were replaced under warranty due to leaking. I guess I find it hard to have a brand new vehicle to have to get all brand new shocks but I’ve heard of people doing that. Are the Bilsteins that much better ride?

Yes, they are. If they are installed for stock ride height in the rear, the Bilsteins offer an extra ~1" of downward travel compared with stock, which reduces off road "3 wheeling" and I believe increases shock durability.

 

[wakeboarder]

The fronts were replaced under warranty due to leaking. I guess I find it hard to have a brand new vehicle to have to get all brand new shocks but I’ve heard of people doing that. Are the Bilsteins that much better ride?

I wouldn’t say that they are a better ride than properly working stock shocks. I think they are about the same. They are a lot better ride than the failed stock shocks and they don’t fail quickly. My stock front shocks failed in less than 5000 miles.

 

[Dice Roll]

If I’m catching the gist of this, you’ve endured the worst these things can dish out, but are ready to get off the ride now that the bugs are worked out. I can see why, trouble is I don’t know what’s an upgrade for you. I just posted a big review of my experience, and I’ll tell you a 20 or 24 Chevy is a major step back in refinement, plus I don’t know that’d it be any more reliable. Sounds like the Toyota has a major drawback as well. I don’t trust fca and I’m a mopar guy when it comes to old cars. Oh and that price, damn.