Difference in amps?

Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.

DR3W

Full Access Members
Joined
Nov 7, 2010
Posts
385
Reaction score
4
Location
L.A. - IE/SoCal
I have 2 12' subs and im looking for around 1000 watts.

Whats the difference in the expensive name brands, and the cheaper ones with unknown brand names?
 

JDMitchell

Full Access Members
Joined
Jan 26, 2011
Posts
620
Reaction score
11
Location
Fort Leonard Wood
The biggest difference will be the signal to noise ratio, power efficiency and the actual power. Most cheap amps won't actually put out the power that they are supposed to. I have never bought a cheap amp since I have seen so many blow when they are run hard. I had a PPI PC250 (50X2) and I had it bench tested at 255 watts per channel when it was running a 2 ohm load. So it was a severely underrated "cheater" amp. There are tons of great amps out there for decent money. I like buying older stuff from PPI, Phoenix Gold, Fosgate, and Xtant. You can find lots of new old stock on ebay or even used stuff that is good shape. It all depends on your budget. I have a old PPI 2150 in my garage that I am just waiting to get a sub and enclosure to put it in my Expy.
 

GAINMOB

Full Access Members
Joined
May 19, 2010
Posts
14,565
Reaction score
893
Location
Newport News, VA
look for RMS ratings...not MAX or PEAK...+1 to what JD said...ebay is best bet for pricing...to keep ebay honest narrow you brands down and search across the internet...AND...look on craigslist in your area...ppl are selling all the time and will still have the equipment hooked up so you can see/hear before buying...get it on the low...
 

panda24619

Full Access Members
Joined
May 18, 2010
Posts
5,485
Reaction score
43
Location
San Diego
ill keep saying it. my crunch amps are great. only reason my 1st one blew was cause i ****** with the terminals. my bad. not the companys bad. they are well priced and are great. but also make sure you get it down to 1 ohm. i sent you a link somewhere before. you can wire your subs to 1 ohm and using a mono amp. will work out in long run better that way to save money. and keep it a cleaner look with out wires running everywhere.
 

Thermo

technical advisor
Joined
Apr 18, 2011
Posts
1,404
Reaction score
65
Stick with brand name amps. That will help you get something worthwhile. As for what Ross is talking about, peak power means absolutely nothing. Any salesperson that will only talk about peak power is not worth anything and should be dropped in a heartbeat. RMS power is based on continuous power, peak power is on a very short burst. Last time I checked, music lasts for minutes, not fractions of a second.

Another rule of thumb that I try to stick with is "balanced power". What do I mean by this, simple, the power (added up) running to the main speakers (the mids and tweets) should be the same power that you are running to your subs. Now, this all assumes that you are running speakers that all have the same sensitivity (measured in dB/W). If they are not the same (normally they are not), then you need to use a simple rule, 3X2. Or, for every 3dB less the subs are to the main speakers, you need to double the power. So, if your main speakers are say 89 dB/W efficient, and your subs are only 86dB/W efficient, you would need to double the power you are running to your subs in comparison to the main speakers. So, to put this into something more useable, if you are running say a 4x50 W (RMS) amp for your main speakers, then you would need to run 400 W (RMS) to your subs (4x50 = 200, then since the subs are 3dB less efficient, 200 x 2 = 400). With this being said, you can overbuy on subs really easy. Keep in mind that higher wattage subs are more stiff (have to be to handle the rapid movements of the cone), so, using say a 1000W sub with an amp that is only capable of outputting 200 W is a bad idea since the amp is not capable of pushing the sub adequately. Another one of my rules, the sub should be rated for no more than 2X that of the amp. This keeps the sub loose enough that you can get good sound out of the sub even at low volumes (relative to the strength of the stereo), yet, big enough that you are not going to destroy the sub the first time you crank it up. Keep in mind that clarity is important when it comes to subs. What destroys most subs is not overpowering them (they are actually capable of handling excessive power for quite a while), but having lots of distortion (aka, high frequencies). The distortion causes the cone to not move as a solid unit, but more as a rolling wave. This "whipping action" rips the edge of the cone. If faced with a decision of two amps, look for the one that has less distortion, even if it has a little less power. You will be happy you did that, so will your ears.

Another thing that I will get out of the way right now is WIRING IS OF THE UTMOST IMPORTANCE!!!!!!! HINT!!!!!! If you think you can skimp on the wiring, you are going to suffer for it. To give you an idea of what I consider adequate wiring, I use 6 gauge wiring for a 300 W RMS (total) system. By using larger gauge wiring, you are getting less voltage drop between the battery and the amp. If the amp is getting a higher voltage, it doesn't have to work as hard, therefore it will operate cooler (leading to long life as the electronics are not as hot, heat is what kills electronics) and since the amp isn't working as hard, it will also have less distortion. Now, there is a point where you are going to get less for going bigger. The rule I use with knowing if you have the proper gauge wiring is having less than a 0.5 VDC drop between the point where you are tapping off of for power and the input of the amp (this can be measured using extended leads on a multimeter) when the volume is at max. I'm sure you are thinking that heavy gauge wiring can't make that big of a difference, well, consider this, even having a very smaller resistance addition (0.01 ohms) with a stereo pulling 100 amps (roughly a 1000 W stereo), results in a drop of 1 VDC. So, you are making that wire dissipate 100 watts of heat (ever feel how hot a 100 W bulbs gets, thats the heat coming off of your wiring!!!!!)

If you need any help, let me know. I've been around the block a few times with stereo systems.
 

GAINMOB

Full Access Members
Joined
May 19, 2010
Posts
14,565
Reaction score
893
Location
Newport News, VA
do you have a garage? when i get back in March if youre down...i'd like to redo everything...by assisting you...i'll revisit this idea at a later date...
 

Thermo

technical advisor
Joined
Apr 18, 2011
Posts
1,404
Reaction score
65
Ross, at the moment, the garage that I have (1 car) is full of my tools. But, I am sure that if you are looking to do something, I will have the space to do it. I am hoping to buy a house next spring, so, we'll see what I have at that point. Looking like I will be able to come up with the down payment on the house with what work has planned. Talking about a 70 day outage where I am putting in 72 hour work weeks. Going to be lots of hours, but the paychecks are sweet. So, I may not be able to get with you in March, but come around April, I should have lots of free time.
 

Thermo

technical advisor
Joined
Apr 18, 2011
Posts
1,404
Reaction score
65
Ross, I'm a jack of all trades. Lets see, I currently am working as a dual function guy doing security system maintenance, but I also am an instrumentation and controls technician at a nuclear power plant (ie, I fix all the electronics associated with the plant systems and I also work on all the low pressure pneumatic systems). Before that, I was literally a jack of all trade for my employer (US Navy). I was amongst other things, a nuclear reactor operator, plant supervisor, instrumentation tech, quality assurance officer, trainer, and policy/procedure writer. So, I have a "little" variation in my background. Now you toss in a healthy attitude towards being a backyard mechanic and you can see where my background starts getting really diverse. Now you can see why I can answer questions in a lot of different fields.
 
OP
OP
DR3W

DR3W

Full Access Members
Joined
Nov 7, 2010
Posts
385
Reaction score
4
Location
L.A. - IE/SoCal
WOW! Lol Honostly, anytime i hear somebody that works on a nuclear plant. I just think of homer simpson! :)

Well anyways, im just thinking of the brand, price range, wattage, channels... Everything. And my subs are pretty stiff... So yeah. Thanks.
 

GAINMOB

Full Access Members
Joined
May 19, 2010
Posts
14,565
Reaction score
893
Location
Newport News, VA
i've heard of a company in tennessee that highers without experience and will train you up to do repairs on nuclear facilities...pays good and work across the country anywhere from a week to 2-3 months...AND you pic when you want to work...of course those that stay on the grind get rewarded with good locations bonuses and move up...i've never forgotten about this...
 

panda24619

Full Access Members
Joined
May 18, 2010
Posts
5,485
Reaction score
43
Location
San Diego
WOW! Lol Honostly, anytime i hear somebody that works on a nuclear plant. I just think of homer simpson! :)

Well anyways, im just thinking of the brand, price range, wattage, channels... Everything. And my subs are pretty stiff... So yeah. Thanks.

well then get a mono amp thats 1 ohm. and matches your subs max and rms ratings almost to the tee. but if not close then go above. and you should be good. and remember. add the wattages up on your subs and thats what your amp should have. example: 2x200 watt rms (subs) = 400 watt rms (amp)
 

GAINMOB

Full Access Members
Joined
May 19, 2010
Posts
14,565
Reaction score
893
Location
Newport News, VA
my set up is a mono-channel amp thats able to go down to 1 or .5...cant remember...but i have it at 2 ohms to give my subs the right rms...cvr's are 400 rms...800 rms total so my amp at 2 ohms delivers 800 rms...
 

tmajikman

Full Access Members
Joined
Jul 26, 2010
Posts
422
Reaction score
0
Location
Cartersville GA
2 ohms is much easier on your electrical system as well, .5 or 1 ohm plays havoc on your alt. and battery, it is a big reason your lights dim at high volume, especially music with alot of bass (.5 or 1 ohm)
 

ExpyPlowGuy

Full Access Members
Joined
May 10, 2011
Posts
505
Reaction score
0
2 ohms is much easier on your electrical system as well, .5 or 1 ohm plays havoc on your alt. and battery, it is a big reason your lights dim at high volume, especially music with alot of bass (.5 or 1 ohm)

It really depends on the quality of your amplifier. High quality amplifiers will not put any strain on your electrical system at these resistance levels, but if you don't put in the extra couple bucks and get a cheaper brand then you are correct!
 

panda24619

Full Access Members
Joined
May 18, 2010
Posts
5,485
Reaction score
43
Location
San Diego
explains why my lights dim. i have mine down to 1 ohm. but with his subs he can do 4 ohm or 1 ohm. on a mono amp. just giving him options. but im thinking about getting a better alt and doing big 3 once i get a new job.
 

Thermo

technical advisor
Joined
Apr 18, 2011
Posts
1,404
Reaction score
65
Running an amp at 2 ohm, 1 ohm, or even 0.5 ohms is not any harder on the electrical system than at 4 and 8 ohms. The reason is that all modern day amps that are worth anything have a DC-DC converter inside of them to convert the 12 VDC to the necessary voltage for the power output. Sure, dropping down from 4 ohm to 1 ohm is going to cause the amp to output more power (in most cases), but if you take an amp outputting 1000W at 1 ohm and another at 1000W at 4 ohm, to the alternator, it is still seeing 1000W.

Now, I will admit that most amps are much happier up at 4 ohm as they are able to provide much better clarity there as the electronics are not being pushed to their limits for stability. But, that is a different argument all together.
 

Thermo

technical advisor
Joined
Apr 18, 2011
Posts
1,404
Reaction score
65
Ross, yes, we have "contractors" that come into our plant all the time. Most of them are bouncing from outage to outage. So, they are moving coast to coast all the time. While they only work half the year normally, when they are working, they are putting in 72 hour weeks. I will admit, the money is good, but living out of hotels and/or a travel trailer can get old really quick. If you want to know more, let me know. But, it will dramatically help your situation if you have been in the nuclear navy or you have a degree in electronics, electrical engineering, or some other mechanical certification. In this case, paperwork is a necessity. Also, a squeaky clean criminal record is mandatory. The other thing that gets a lot of people kicked out right off the bat is recreational pharmaceuticals. Even the once in the blue moon users will get caught. At all places that is grounds to be fired immediately and most plants have instituted if you have gotten caught, they won't even think about you for a year from the first incident, 5 years from the second incident and never after the 3rd. I'm not saying that you do anything like this, but there are some lifestyle things that a lot of guys are not willing to give up.

DR3W, how did you know my nickname of "Homer Simpson"? I have pushed reactors to more places than I care to admit to. But, that was all in the navy and what the navy does with reactors is completely different than what a power plant does. But, if you think I glow, I will give you this to think about. In my 22 years of working nuclear power, I have gotten just shy of 900 millirem of exposure. If you smoke 1 pack of cigarettes a day for 1 year, you expose yourself to somewhere between 1,000 and 3,000 millirem. EACH YEAR!!!!!! So, who glows? Kinda like if you fly from NYC to LA and back, you get exposed to around 75 millirem for that trip. Any X-ray, that is 15 or so millirem. The big difference is I know what I am getting exposed to, others don't.
 

GAINMOB

Full Access Members
Joined
May 19, 2010
Posts
14,565
Reaction score
893
Location
Newport News, VA
im drug free...in the air force so thats no prob...but no electrical background...logistics...background no prob...just bought my GLOCK 23...living out of bags...did i mention i was in the air force...15 months in afghanistan...moved 3 times...living out my A-bags/duffles...used to living out of bags...did i mention i was logistics...used to 2-4 maybe 8 weeks living away from fam...doing the job...
 
Top