Help! 2017 EB: Pop! Reduced Power. No code.

[shinysideup2]

Has anybody experienced the following? I could not find anything in a search of this forum...

Pulling out of my drive way (cold engine), while accelerating...
- Pop! noise - not a bang - like something under air pressure blew a seal.
- Louder than normal turbo sound while driving around city speeds.
- Reduced torque/power - not much more than 10%-20%.
- If I'm in a higher gear when I give it gas (about 50-80%), it downshifts, but with little power, as if the tranny knows what to do, but the engine just can't deliver the power.
- No OBDII Codes thrown at all. No check engine light.

My first guess is that my electronic blow-off valve is somehow stuck open (hence, turbo spools up, but very low power). It is not vented to atmosphere. Why would it make a "pop" sound?

Any other ideas on root cause?

Would this be an easy fix?

If not, would it be covered under powertrain warranty (CPO 100k mi)?

Thanks.
Jay.

 

[LokiWolf]

Has anybody experienced the following? I could not find anything in a search of this forum...

Pulling out of my drive way (cold engine), while accelerating...
- Pop! noise - not a bang - like something under air pressure blew a seal.
- Louder than normal turbo sound while driving around city speeds.
- Reduced torque/power - not much more than 10%-20%.
- If I'm in a higher gear when I give it gas (about 50-80%), it downshifts, but with little power, as if the tranny knows what to do, but the engine just can't deliver the power.
- No OBDII Codes thrown at all. No check engine light.

My first guess is that my electronic blow-off valve is somehow stuck open (hence, turbo spools up, but very low power). It is not vented to atmosphere. Why would it make a "pop" sound?

Any other ideas on root cause?

Would this be an easy fix?

If not, would it be covered under powertrain warranty (CPO 100k mi)?

Thanks.
Jay.

Nope you lost the tube going to the IC, down low near the radiator. Pretty common. Should be an easy fix if you can get to the hose. It probably worked it way off due to oil/moisture in the tube. Hopefully the clamp is still there. If not you will need one. Fairly big. Can't remember the diameter.

 

[shinysideup2]

Thanks @LokiWolf ! I'll check it out.

 

[07navi]

It sounds like it goes into limp mode also.

 

[LokiWolf]

It sounds like it goes into limp mode also.

Nope. Hence no CEL. It will eventually throw one. You are just driving a 3.5 Liter V6 with no forced induction...

Turbo is spooling, air just isn’t reaching manifold at the pressure.

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[JamaicaJoe]

Don't drive it too aggressively, no backpressure on the turbo will result in overspeed.

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[jeff kushner]

Nope. Hence no CEL. It will eventually throw one. You are just driving a 3.5 Liter V6 with no forced induction...

Turbo is spooling, air just isn’t reaching manifold at the pressure.

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Good call Loki and it's good to see you still on point for the guys! All is well here, hope the same for you and your family! I had this happen on my turbo bike and off turbo, it's a heavy, underpowered anchor. I can't imagine 214ci or so - off turbo would push our 6000 pound trucks much better. The OP has to be thrilled....nothing better than hearing "it's just a hose", even if it's a pita to get to!

I think it's safe to say that you made his day!

jeff

 

[LokiWolf]

Don't drive it too aggressively, no backpressure on the turbo will result in overspeed.

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Excellent point. Not getting the volume out though to drive them too hard. But yeah, not a state you want to do any extended driving in.

 

[LokiWolf]

Good call Loki and it's good to see you still on point for the guys! All is well here, hope the same for you and your family! I had this happen on my turbo bike and off turbo, it's a heavy, underpowered anchor. I can't imagine 214ci or so - off turbo would push our 6000 pound trucks much better. The OP has to be thrilled....nothing better than hearing "it's just a hose", even if it's a pita to get to!

I think it's safe to say that you made his day!

jeff

Thanks Jeff. All those symptoms point to the hose. Hopefully is slipped and didn't actually blow or tear. Which is much less likely.

 

[shinysideup2]

The intercooler hoses are fine, all connected. I traced the pipes from the turbos to the intercooler. They seemed fine.

The hose coming out of the "cold" side of intercooler seems fine...

I traced that on up towards the throttle body, but could not for the life of me find the problematic hose. I was ready to give up and go on back into the house to continue my work day. As I reached up to close the hood, I looked down one last time and saw this...

Some ******** didn't secure the intake hose onto the throttle body tightly enough.

Oh wait - that would be me, as I replaced the TB a few months back when it went out.

I'm glad it wasn't something more serious. Thanks guys for pointing me in the right direction.

 

[99WhiteC5Coupe]

Nope you lost the tube going to the IC, down low near the radiator. Pretty common. Should be an easy fix if you can get to the hose. It probably worked it way off due to oil/moisture in the tube. Hopefully the clamp is still there. If not you will need one. Fairly big. Can't remember the diameter.

I recently had the leaking engine water pump replaced on my 2015 Expedition Limited 4x4 at a local Ford dealer (only took four trips to diagnose).

Now, when I cold start my vehicle (20-45 degrees F ambient temperature), I also get one or two pops. I bought the vehicle new, and it has never been wrecked or damaged - or made this noise.

The technician damaged one large plastic intake piece, and it was also replaced under the repair - in addition to the water pump kit (Ford extended warranty).

Is the hose you mentioned going to the inter cooler (IC?) a rubber hose, or a hard plastic hose?

I’m very irritated with the dealer service and would prefer to try to fix the problem myself, instead of a fifth trip to the dealer. Any additional help would be appreciated.

Thank you.

 

[LokiWolf]

I recently had the leaking engine water pump replaced on my 2015 Expedition Limited 4x4 at a local Ford dealer (only took four trips to diagnose).

Now, when I cold start my vehicle (20-45 degrees F ambient temperature), I also get one or two pops. I bought the vehicle new, and it has never been wrecked or damaged - or made this noise.

The technician damaged one large plastic intake piece, and it was also replaced under the repair - in addition to the water pump kit (Ford extended warranty).

Is the hose you mentioned going to the inter cooler (IC?) a rubber hose, or a hard plastic hose?

I’m very irritated with the dealer service and would prefer to try to fix the problem myself, instead of a fifth trip to the dealer. Any additional help would be appreciated.

Thank you.

I believe at least one is hard plastic. I think @shinysideup2 got a good pic of it in the post above.

Get a video from the outside of the pops if you can and post it here...would love to hear it.


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[jeff kushner]

"Oh wait - that would be me, as I replaced the TB a few months back when it went out.

I'm glad it wasn't something more serious. Thanks guys for pointing me in the right direction"

Kudo's to the OP for owning it.....we've all done similar!

jeff

 

[JamaicaJoe]

I am surprised no codes were thrown as the MAF sensor normally would lean the engine out in a non turbo with no airflow. In this case the MAF is seeing unrestricted turbo boost. Interesting.

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[shinysideup2]

I am surprised no codes were thrown as the MAF sensor normally would lean the engine out in a non turbo with no airflow. In this case the MAF is seeing unrestricted turbo boost. Interesting.

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I'm pretty sure we have no MAF (Mass Air Flow) sensor. Rather, EB's sense air volume via MAP (Manifold Air Pressure) sensors. This is the reason drilling a hole in the intercooler is ok as it doesn't richen the mixture. Good point though. When I first read about the intercooler hole drilling mod to drain fluids out of there, I was concerned about the same thing.

 

[99WhiteC5Coupe]

I believe at least one is hard plastic. I think @shinysideup2 got a good pic of it in the post above.

Get a video from the outside of the pops if you can and post it here...would love to hear it.


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I found this TSB regarding the popping noise on my 2015 Expedition: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2015/SB-10058195-1717.pdf

I am not sure why it doesn’t apply to the 2016-2017 Expedition models? It also says “some” models may make the sound. If it is normal, I wonder why all models don’t make the sound?

When the engine is started cold after parked all night or longer (and with cold ambient temperatures about 15 - 35 degrees F), it will have one pop after about 20-30 seconds (similar to the beginning of a microwave bag of popcorn starting to pop).

Both cooling fans also sound like they turn on to a high setting (but not as loud as the roar they make when it is above 90 degrees F with the a/c on at idle).

The pop is very pronounced and can be heard with the hood closed, and from at least 20 - 30 feet away (and I don’t have perfect hearing....).

I did not return it to the dealer, due to this TSB. However, I bought the vehicle new and the pop noise did not begin until after the dealer replaced the water pump and hub, and one hose and one large hard plastic air duct (that they damaged).

 

[JamaicaJoe]

I'm pretty sure we have no MAF (Mass Air Flow) sensor. Rather, EB's sense air volume via MAP (Manifold Air Pressure) sensors. This is the reason drilling a hole in the intercooler is ok as it doesn't richen the mixture. Good point though. When I first read about the intercooler hole drilling mod to drain fluids out of there, I was concerned about the same thing.

I could never keep the two sensors straight.

So the intercooler collect condensation? Who would have thought? They need a spit valve.

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[JamaicaJoe]

I found this TSB regarding the popping noise on my 2015 Expedition: https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2015/SB-10058195-1717.pdf

I am not sure why it doesn’t apply to the 2016-2017 Expedition models? It also says “some” models may make the sound. If it is normal, I wonder why all models don’t make the sound?

When the engine is started cold after parked all night or longer (and with cold ambient temperatures about 15 - 35 degrees F), it will have one pop after about 20-30 seconds (similar to the beginning of a microwave bag of popcorn starting to pop).

Both cooling fans also sound like they turn on to a high setting (but not as loud as the roar they make when it is above 90 degrees F with the a/c on at idle).

The pop is very pronounced and can be heard with the hood closed, and from at least 20 - 30 feet away (and I don’t have perfect hearing....).

I did not return it to the dealer, due to this TSB. However, I bought the vehicle new and the pop noise did not begin until after the dealer replaced the water pump and hub, and one hose and one large hard plastic air duct (that they damaged).

I wonder why at those cold temps. A layer of ice on the accumulated water? Fuel condensation in the exhaust manifold? Why?

Edit nevermind. Probably the intake air is so dense.

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[shinysideup2]

I'm guessing the EB does (or did) this with the bypass valve on start-up to make sure the bypass valve is not frozen shut and can actually open. If a bypass valve fails to open when you lift throttle (followed by heavy throttle), the compressor will surge, potentially harming the turbo. Since the fast-spinning turbine which doesn't have time to slow, keeps producing boost which then builds excessively ahead of the now closed throttle body.

That's my guess... From a bit of study on turbo cars since the 90's + friends in the race community who work for Honeywell (turbo mfg division). This article + video explains it a bit. https://www.caradvice.com.au/587685/what-is-turbo-flutter-and-compressor-surge-is-it-bad/

I wonder why at those cold temps. A layer of ice on the accumulated water? Fuel condensation in the exhaust manifold? Why?

Edit nevermind. Probably the intake air is so dense.

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