Mod input

[bsevans5]

Maybe these things have been addressed individually...not sure.

I'm reaching out to the expedation (expedition nation) to draw on your experience and knowledge.

Backstory: ive got a 2010 ford expedition el 4x4. Had a ford f150 until we had a 5th kid...no more truck makes me sad cause i get 6 mpg towing my travel trailer and sometimes struggle to make it up a hill. I average 14-15 mpg regular driving. Ive recently encountered an increased need to get up on the mountain (dirt roads). Im looking at the option of a beater truck or putting a 3" front 2" rear lift on the expedition and eventually some bigger tires.

How much will the tires impact fuel economy?

Does the vehicle need to be calibrated to different size tires or does it figure it out so the odometer is still accurate?

Would it be better in the long run to just find a beater truck for $3-5k?

Is there anything you can think of that would improve my fuel economy/performance? Is a cold air intake worth the money? What about exhaust mod? I know diesels van be "tuned" which supposedly can make a big deal with fuel economy or power. Are there things like that for the expedition?

I like cars, but dont know a lot about their inner-workings. Thaks for your input.

 

[Adieu]

I have LT-rated BFG KO2s and 4x4 and lift/level Rancho coilovers and tow mirrors (so just about everything that can decrease MPG lol), fuel economy is like 13 city / 17 highway in congested SoCal

would probably be like 19-20 cruise controlling 55 on an empty rural/state highway though

 

[AllBoostNoEco]

Taking things in order: tires affect on fuel economy will depend on how big you go, how heavy the tires are versus stock ones, and how heavy your foot is. My 2009 F-150 with the 5.4 3V got 15 mpg city/18 Highway with factory tires, and got 14/18 with 35” LT tires. My 2010 F-150 4.6 3V went from 16/19 on stock tires to 14/18 on 33” LTs (torqueless wonder). My 2013 F-150 5.0 went from 15/19 on stock tires to 15/19 with 35” LTs and got 11 mpg towing my 9K car trailer.

You will have to recalibrate for bigger tires. Most of the handheld tuners on the market can do it, and Hypertech still sells their speedometer calibrator I believe. You could get a tune and the ability to calibrate for new tire size with an SCT X4 or something similar for $300-400 depending on what you get.

That being said, on the 5.4, even with a tune, intake, and exhaust, you aren’t going to get enough of a return to make it worthwhile IMO. You could do them all, spend hundreds of dollars, and end up adding all of 25 hp and about the same in torque.
A gearing upgrade might be where your get the best return for your money. Increased torque multiplication means the engine isn’t working as hard plus you could gear appropriately for bigger tires. A small change like jumping from 3.73 to 4.10 can make a big difference. If you have 3.55s, jumping to 4.10s would make a drastic improvement. On a 4WD, it will be on the expensive side because you have to change both ends at the same time. You would also need to calibrate for both new tires and the gears simultaneously, which is the same process as just for tires.

Just laying out things you could look at in lieu of a beater truck. If you need a beater that can handle being off-road and seat 7, that limits your options, and it’s not my greatest knowledge area. Perhaps an old (91-and-under) K2500 Suburban with the solid axles front and rear, or the Land Cruiser/Lexus LX470 before they switched to IFS, or a Disco II with the jump seats?

 

[Muddy Bean]

I second the motion of just getting a Land Cruiser 80 series.
Solid front axle...comfy. Three rows. I owned a 100 series and it was triple locked and very very capable and much more comfy and had more power than the 80 series but at the end of the day either one would be a fun trail truck. I think the Expedition might be better used for hwy love


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[bsevans5]

Taking things in order: tires affect on fuel economy will depend on how big you go, how heavy the tires are versus stock ones, and how heavy your foot is. My 2009 F-150 with the 5.4 3V got 15 mpg city/18 Highway with factory tires, and got 14/18 with 35” LT tires. My 2010 F-150 4.6 3V went from 16/19 on stock tires to 14/18 on 33” LTs (torqueless wonder). My 2013 F-150 5.0 went from 15/19 on stock tires to 15/19 with 35” LTs and got 11 mpg towing my 9K car trailer.

You will have to recalibrate for bigger tires. Most of the handheld tuners on the market can do it, and Hypertech still sells their speedometer calibrator I believe. You could get a tune and the ability to calibrate for new tire size with an SCT X4 or something similar for $300-400 depending on what you get.

That being said, on the 5.4, even with a tune, intake, and exhaust, you aren’t going to get enough of a return to make it worthwhile IMO. You could do them all, spend hundreds of dollars, and end up adding all of 25 hp and about the same in torque.
A gearing upgrade might be where your get the best return for your money. Increased torque multiplication means the engine isn’t working as hard plus you could gear appropriately for bigger tires. A small change like jumping from 3.73 to 4.10 can make a big difference. If you have 3.55s, jumping to 4.10s would make a drastic improvement. On a 4WD, it will be on the expensive side because you have to change both ends at the same time. You would also need to calibrate for both new tires and the gears simultaneously, which is the same process as just for tires.

Just laying out things you could look at in lieu of a beater truck. If you need a beater that can handle being off-road and seat 7, that limits your options, and it’s not my greatest knowledge area. Perhaps an old (91-and-under) K2500 Suburban with the solid axles front and rear, or the Land Cruiser/Lexus LX470 before they switched to IFS, or a Disco II with the jump seats?

Thanks for all the input. I have the 3.73 i believe. If i get a beater truck, it doesnt have to seat 7. I wouldnt be taking everyone. The specific reason im going off road is i just got into hunting. I went with some guys that had trucks and was trying to think of how i would get out on my own. I dont want to scratch up the expy, but with a coil over spacer and bigger tires i could get where they are going. The truck would be something i dont mind getting banged up

 

[AllBoostNoEco]

In that case, I’m all for a beater. I don’t shy away from bashing on my trucks, but if I destroy my Expedition, my wife still has hers so it doesn’t affect ability to move the family around.
Plus, loading a bloody deer in the back of an Expedition makes a hell of a mess.

 

[bsevans5]

In that case, I’m all for a beater. I don’t shy away from bashing on my trucks, but if I destroy my Expedition, my wife still has hers so it doesn’t affect ability to move the family around.
Plus, loading a bloody deer in the back of an Expedition makes a hell of a mess.

I had considered how i would transport any harvested big game. My wheels were spinning...

 

[Oldnerdguy]

Changing tires can impact gas mileage.
The vehicle cannot automatically detect a different tire size. So the speedometer will be off. The odometer will also be off. Most programmers can fix this.
And actually tires can affect fuel mileage in many ways - size, weight, friction (rolling resistance), etc.
Tire size effect is linear. Example- if you go from 30 inch tall tire to a 33 inch tall tire, you have increased the diameter by 10%. So the speedometer and odometer will be off 10%. So when the speedometer reads 60, you are really going 66. If your odometer says you went 1000 miles you really went 1100 miles. So if you figure gas mileage based on your odometer reading you need to add 10% to the number then divide by the gallons filled.
Tire weight also directly impacts gas mileage and vehicle performance. A heavier tire is an increase in unsprung weight which is bad. Makes it feel like you are pulling a trailer with regards to acceleration.
Different tires have different rolling resistance. Some tires even advertise LRR, Low Rolling Resistance, for better gas mileage. A highawy tire will almost always get better gas mileage than a mud tire of the same size.
Go from a highway tire to a larger diameter, wider, heavier, mud tire and you will certainly see a very noticeable difference.

I went from a 39 lb all season C load rated tire to a 7% taller 54 lb all terrain E rated tire in my truck. I see a 10% reduction in gas mileage, and this is with all the corrections in place.
I only run these in the winter.

 

[bsevans5]

Changing tires can impact gas mileage.
The vehicle cannot automatically detect a different tire size. So the speedometer will be off. The odometer will also be off. Most programmers can fix this.
And actually tires can affect fuel mileage in many ways - size, weight, friction (rolling resistance), etc.
Tire size effect is linear. Example- if you go from 30 inch tall tire to a 33 inch tall tire, you have increased the diameter by 10%. So the speedometer and odometer will be off 10%. So when the speedometer reads 60, you are really going 66. If your odometer says you went 1000 miles you really went 1100 miles. So if you figure gas mileage based on your odometer reading you need to add 10% to the number then divide by the gallons filled.
Tire weight also directly impacts gas mileage and vehicle performance. A heavier tire is an increase in unsprung weight which is bad. Makes it feel like you are pulling a trailer with regards to acceleration.
Different tires have different rolling resistance. Some tires even advertise LRR, Low Rolling Resistance, for better gas mileage. A highawy tire will almost always get better gas mileage than a mud tire of the same size.
Go from a highway tire to a larger diameter, wider, heavier, mud tire and you will certainly see a very noticeable difference.

I went from a 39 lb all season C load rated tire to a 7% taller 54 lb all terrain E rated tire in my truck. I see a 10% reduction in gas mileage, and this is with all the corrections in place.
I only run these in the winter.

Great information! I appreciate the explanation. Very informative. I like learning the reason behind an answer, so this was great. Thank you.

As much as I'd like the coil over spacers, im thinking a beater truck may be the way to go...just a fine line between beater and something i dont trust to get me where i need to go. The wife says she would prefer a crew cab so if we ever needed to fit most of us in there we could. Thats just going to make it harder to find a decent one as that ups the price. Not i a hurry, so I'll just keep an eye out.

 

[Adieu]

Btw, if you need a "beater" lifted 7-8 seater 4x4 with all terrain tires, another cheap-ish option is.... another Expedition.

Just add a junkyard third row to a surplus rural sheriff or park service Expedition SSV 4x4. I got my '09 a year ago for $4600 from a dealer, and that guy paid just $3800 at auction for it.

They can be had at stupid cheap prices and probably getting cheaper yet now that they're rolling out the 3rd gens. Full leather interior will run you ~$1k, third row only $300-500, less for cloth.

The "leather" 3rd rows are a tough vinyl so all they need is a can of the TurtleWax Leather Cleaner with the brush attachment and they'll be nice and clean.

So starting at like $4k you can get a whole backup Expy for rough duty use (vs. spending ~$2k on lifts and tires --- though maybe a lot less if you shop used and do everything yourself)