Noise on start up

[Shantheman73]

Need input...what does this sound like is the issue? Timing chain? Cam phasers? None of the above? It only happens at start up...worse when it’s cold.




2007 Ford Expedition Limited
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[Shantheman73]

I’ll add that oil is fresh and using motorcraft filter.


2007 Ford Expedition Limited
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[07navi]

Timing chain tensioner blew o-ring out. Just a chain slap but needs to be fixed before it breaks up the plastic guides and the debris falls into the oil pan.

 

[Shantheman73]

Timing chain tensioner blew o-ring out. Just a chain slap but needs to be fixed before it breaks up the plastic guides and the debris falls into the oil pan.

Not cam phasers then?
What does a timing chain tensioner job entail? Anyone DYI or recommend mechanic?


2007 Ford Expedition Limited
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[JExpedition07]

Retail will be $2,500-$3,000 for the job depending on your area. If you are going to diy set aside 2-3 days or set up another ride to piece meal it.

 

[762mm]

x2 on the timing chain tensioner, the chain slap sounds pretty bad too!

You don't want to keep it like that for long, as the timing guides will disintegrate into chunks, block oil pickup tube + oil passages in that Triton and blow the engine.

I just ordered new tensioners and guides from Rockauto. You can get the parts for around $140 all in and can do the job yourself if you have a weekend to spare. You can use the upgraded Melling cast iron tensioners, which address the tensioner seal blowing problem.

Ford Tech Makuloco on YouTube has a very comprehensive video on how to go about it. I suggest you check it out!

 

[JExpedition07]

Mine has had a tin sound startup rattle for a few months now, yours sounds pretty bad. Not a fun job but needs to be done eventually.

 

[07navi]

You can drive it but if it gets worse you will know the plastic guides are breaking up. The tensioners operate mainly on oil pressure so they are only "not working" for a few seconds. Oil is going in faster than it comes out so it works "normally" after the 5+- seconds when it is retracted and not pushing on the chain. The whole front of the engine has to come off to get to the timing chain, guides, and the 2 tensioners. A bad VTC rattles constantly mainly when it idles.

 

[t_bois]

So what oil are you using? 5w10 or 10w 30? Is this when it's cold or hot or does it sound like that all the time?

I just spent 3K on new timing chains, cam phasers, and the rest of all the associated parts plus a new oil hi pressure pump.

 

[Shantheman73]

So what oil are you using? 5w10 or 10w 30? Is this when it's cold or hot or does it sound like that all the time?

I just spent 3K on new timing chains, cam phasers, and the rest of all the associated parts plus a new oil hi pressure pump.

Was using 5w20 and recently switched to 5w30. Primarily when it’s cold at start up. It only lasts 2-3 seconds. It’ll randomly do it when it’s hot but it’s far less common.

Who did the work for you? Dealer? Independent shop?


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[NobodySpecial]

Was using 5w20 and recently switched to 5w30. Primarily when it’s cold at start up. It only lasts 2-3 seconds. It’ll randomly do it when it’s hot but it’s far less common.

Who did the work for you? Dealer? Independent shop?


2007 Ford Expedition Limited
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Definitely chain rattle. These are interference engines as well. Can get really expensive if the stretched chain jumps time, the piston and valves will make contact.

While the most likely cause is going to be the tensioners/guides, I want to ask; what brand of oil filter are you running? Using aftermarket filters like FRAM (the orange can ones more specifically) have been known to cause oil to leak out of the filter and back into the pan and cause dry starts. Again, likely not the case with yours. However, it has happened.

 

[Shantheman73]

Definitely chain rattle. These are interference engines as well. Can get really expensive if the stretched chain jumps time, the piston and valves will make contact.

While the most likely cause is going to be the tensioners/guides, I want to ask; what brand of oil filter are you running? Using aftermarket filters like FRAM (the orange can ones more specifically) have been known to cause oil to leak out of the filter and back into the pan and cause dry starts. Again, likely not the case with yours. However, it has happened.

Using Motorcraft.


2007 Ford Expedition Limited
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[07navi]

Definitely chain rattle. These are interference engines as well. Can get really expensive if the stretched chain jumps time, the piston and valves will make contact.

While the most likely cause is going to be the tensioners/guides, I want to ask; what brand of oil filter are you running? Using aftermarket filters like FRAM (the orange can ones more specifically) have been known to cause oil to leak out of the filter and back into the pan and cause dry starts. Again, likely not the case with yours. However, it has happened.

They don't really stretch, they wear but they don't do much of that either. They rarely jump a tooth but when they do it because of loose chains caused by broken guides and totally inoperative tensioners.

 

[07navi]

Using Motorcraft.


2007 Ford Expedition Limited
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That sounds worse than it is and you can drive it like that. The oil leaks out of one of the tensioners when it sits and it pushes against the chain guide as soon as the oil gets to it. A one second delay is not much at all, many sound like that for a couple minutes, I wouldn't worry about it unless it gets worse. Mine rattled for about 5 minutes every morning when it was about 25*f most of the winter at 200k miles and the guides were so good I didn't bother to put the new ones in plus the chain was as tight as from day one.....left that in there too but didn't have a new one to replace it anyway. That was a couple years ago and it ran fine until I sold it. All I put in was 2 new tensioners and a front plate rubber gasket but it didn't really need that either.

 

[rjdelp7]

I have Lincoln Intech 32v that did the same thing. I stopped using motorcraft paper filters(sold at Walmart) and switched to Mobil 1 oil and premium filters, like Mobile 1 or Fram Ultra synthetic. No more noise. I also initially, added 1/4 bottle of Hyper lube. That was 5yrs ago.

 

[Shantheman73]

Got a few quotes this morning. Ford dealer said they don't really crack open the 5.4's anymore. That was interesting. Another guy said they don't work on them. Third shop I found has a great reputation, and quoted me $2500 to do the tensioners and the cam phasers all in one shot. Makes sense.

At 170k miles...I'm torn on what to do. Either run it til it dies, or do the work and get another 100k out of it. The rest of the truck is in great shape, and I recently did all 4 corners brakes, tires, A/C compressor and starter. So i've already put some $ into it recently.

 

[Shantheman73]

I have Lincoln Intech 32v that did the same thing. I stopped using motorcraft paper filters(sold at Walmart) and switched to Mobil 1 oil and premium filters, like Mobile 1 or Fram Ultra synthetic. No more noise. I also initially, added 1/4 bottle of Hyper lube. That was 5yrs ago.

I tried the bottle of STP high mileage oil treatment someone else recommended on this forum. That was over a month ago...start up noise still the same unfortunately.

 

[07navi]

I have Lincoln Intech 32v that did the same thing. I stopped using motorcraft paper filters(sold at Walmart) and switched to Mobil 1 oil and premium filters, like Mobile 1 or Fram Ultra synthetic. No more noise. I also initially, added 1/4 bottle of Hyper lube. That was 5yrs ago.

Never heard of anyone having problems with Motorcraft and it's all I ever use...…..maybe it was something else

 

[JExpedition07]

I’d avoid the Ford dealers once you are beyond warranty on most of their vehicles. All they do these days is sell new engines it seems. Many refuse to open up engines and do internal repairs for the most part because lacking skill and liability. I’ve seen too many 5.4 3V and EcoBoost engines completely replaced on the forums for timing chain issues that are easily remedied. Seems many just want to write those $9,000 bills for engine replacements. It’s a sad time for mechanics in a way, they can’t be mechanics anymore. Some Transmission shops have admitted they no longer fix transmissions for the most part either, they just sell a rebuilt trans for any problems other than electrical.

 

[Shantheman73]

Avoid the Ford dealers once you are beyond warranty on most of their vehicles. All they do these days is sell new engines, they do not fix hard parts or open up engines for the most part anymore likely because the techs are not skilled or knowledgeable enough, also the liability. I’ve seen so many 5.4 3V and EcoBoost engines completely replaced on the forums for timing chain issues that are easily remedied. Dealers seem to refuse to do internal work and just want to write those $9,000 bills for engine replacements. It’s a sad time for mechanics, they can’t be mechanics anymore. Some Transmission shops have told me they no longer fix transmissions either, they just sell a rebuilt trans for any problems other than electrical.

Ahhh, that makes sense. You’re prob right...it’s too invasive and their techs prob don’t have the skills or maybe even the time. It’s easier to sell a new engine and move on.

I spose for $2500, getting both timing chain tensioner, hi flow oil pump, and the cam phasers...it’s not a bad price. Just sucks it’s so invasive.


2007 Ford Expedition Limited
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