Noise on start up

[JExpedition07]

Ahhh, that makes sense. You’re prob right...it’s too invasive and their techs prob don’t have the skills or maybe even the time. It’s easier to sell a new engine and move on.

I spose for $2500, getting both timing chain tensioner, hi flow oil pump, and the cam phasers...it’s not a bad price. Just sucks it’s so invasive.


2007 Ford Expedition Limited
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There are still shops out there that will do skilled labor repairs and it seems you may have found one. You just have to do your due diligence to find them.

 

[07navi]

Ahhh, that makes sense. You’re prob right...it’s too invasive and their techs prob don’t have the skills or maybe even the time. It’s easier to sell a new engine and move on.

I spose for $2500, getting both timing chain tensioner, hi flow oil pump, and the cam phasers...it’s not a bad price. Just sucks it’s so invasive.


2007 Ford Expedition Limited
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Not bad for a days work………..

 

[JExpedition07]

I’ll be doing mine myself this summer for the rattle too...mine only rattles occasionally if it sits 4-5 hours but usually doesn’t rattle if it sits 7-8 hours overnight which I don’t get. Beyond that runs perfect. My dealer has no interest in timing jobs and my mechanic won’t touch any Ford OHC engine with a 10’ pole. To avoid someone I don’t trust I just ended up ordering the timing set to do myself, my only viable choice. This truck has tested my patience with the trans issues and now this for sure.

 

[NobodySpecial]

They don't really stretch, they wear but they don't do much of that either. They rarely jump a tooth but when they do it because of loose chains caused by broken guides and totally inoperative tensioners.

I've seen a lot of them stretch. I've seen the chains get so sloppy they will eat a hole in the valve cover or front cover and sometimes not even break a guide. That yanking back and forth from the failed tensioner after a while will stretch it. Either way though, a lot of these engines have blown up from this issue (F-150 forums are full of engine failure) and it's best not to drive them when they are doing this, if possible, especially if the guides are broken. Plastic pieces can plug the oil sump and starve the engine of oil pressure.

 

[JExpedition07]

I've seen a lot of them stretch. I've seen the chains get so sloppy they will eat a hole in the valve cover or front cover and sometimes not even break a guide. That yanking back and forth from the failed tensioner after a while will stretch it. Either way though, a lot of these engines have blown up from this issue (F-150 forums are full of engine failure) and it's best not to drive them when they are doing this, if possible, especially if the guides are broken. Plastic pieces can plug the oil sump and starve the engine of oil pressure.

Can’t worry about everything in life, nor can you let this stop you from driving your truck. It’s not going to stop me from driving mine, I’m certainly not worried at this point. If there was plastic in the pickup the camphasers would be getting loud from lack of oil flow. His engine and mine both sound perfectly fine with no metallic clicks or knocking once running. You’d know if you weren’t getting oil pressure.

 

[NobodySpecial]

Can’t worry about everything in life, nor can you let this stop you from driving your truck. It’s not going to stop me from driving mine, I’m certainly not worried at this point. If there was plastic in the pickup the camphasers would be getting loud from lack of oil flow. His engine and mine both sound perfectly fine with no metallic clicks or knocking once running. You’d know if you weren’t getting oil pressure.

I'm just saying, it's best not to drive them, if at all possible. I'm just the kind of person who is proactive. If a problem arises, I like to solve it, especially if it's my vehicle where it could leave me stranded. I understand what you're saying though. I'm just sharing my opinion that it's better to tackle something, before it gets to that point. My .02.

 

[07navi]

I've seen a lot of them stretch. I've seen the chains get so sloppy they will eat a hole in the valve cover or front cover and sometimes not even break a guide. That yanking back and forth from the failed tensioner after a while will stretch it. Either way though, a lot of these engines have blown up from this issue (F-150 forums are full of engine failure) and it's best not to drive them when they are doing this, if possible, especially if the guides are broken. Plastic pieces can plug the oil sump and starve the engine of oil pressure.

Nah, chains wear not stretch but not going to argue about it, plus that slack is only one second, I would bet money all else is in good shape in there. Done here...……...

 

[JExpedition07]

I said it's best not to drive them, if at all possible. I'm just the kind of person who is proactive. If a problem arises, I like to solve it, especially if it's my vehicle where it could leave me stranded. I understand what you're saying though. I'm just sharing my opinion that it's better to tackle something, before it gets to that point. My .02.

I totally agree with you for the record. Those who are in a position to get it fixed by all means should ASAP. For me it’s not possible until around June, otherwise it would be done!

 

[NobodySpecial]

Nah, chains wear not stretch but not going to argue about it, plus that slack is only one second, I would bet money all else is in good shape in there. Done here...……...

Not arguing, sir. Just sharing what I've seen in my personal experience.

 

[07navi]

Not arguing, sir. Just sharing what I've seen in my personal experience.

me too

 

[NobodySpecial]

I totally agree with you for the record. Those who are in a position to get it fixed by all means should ASAP. For me it’s not possible until around June, otherwise it would be done!

Absolutely, I understand. Unfortunately, many people have been financially devastated by this particular engine. So many cut corners on the part of Ford. When you get the work done, make sure they add in a Melling HV pump. Really does wonders for this engine and the VCT operation.

 

[JExpedition07]

Absolutely, I understand. Unfortunately, many people have been financially devastated by this particular engine. So many cut corners on the part of Ford. When you get the work done, make sure they add in a Melling HV pump. Really does wonders for this engine and the VCT operation.

Have you done a bunch of these? I have had 2 timing sets in my cart for a while. I have a Melling set (Chains,guides,tensioners) and the Ford set of the same thing. The Melling is about $90 cheaper for these parts. The only reason I’m considering it is they have a pretty good name in the A/M community. Any good or go with Ford? The only thing I’m not doing when I open it up in June is the camphasers themselves since those can be replaced later without timing cover removal. Mine as of now are operating correctly and make no noises at a hot idle, she still is quiet.

 

[NobodySpecial]

Have you done a bunch of these? I have had 2 timing sets in my cart for a while. I have a Melling set (Chains,guides,tensioners) and the Ford set of the same thing. The Melling is about $90 cheaper for these parts. The only reason I’m considering it is they have a pretty good name in the A/M community. Any good or go with Ford? The only thing I’m not doing when I open it up in June is the camphasers themselves since those can be replaced later without timing cover removal. Mine as of now are operating correctly and make no noises at a hot idle, she still is quiet.

I have never used the Melling set, so unfortunately, I can't comment on the quality. I've done about 6, so far. First one I ever did I watched FordTechMakuloco's timing video and I've always used the Ford OEM timing kit he recommends on Amazon.

By the way, how many miles do you have? I apologize if you already stated this. I've got a 2007 F-150 with this very engine. 165k miles on it. Luckily, I have not had to do timing work on mine, yet. Quiet as silk.

 

[JExpedition07]

I have never used the Melling set, so unfortunately, I can't comment on the quality. I've done about 6, so far. First one I ever did I watched FordTechMakuloco's timing video and I've always used the Ford OEM timing kit he recommends on Amazon.

By the way, how many miles do you have? I apologize if you already stated this. I've got a 2007 F-150 with this very engine. 165k miles on it. Luckily, I have not had to do timing work on mine, yet. Quiet as silk.

about 160k miles now, occasional long cold soak startup rattles started at about 150k

 

[Shantheman73]

I have never used the Melling set, so unfortunately, I can't comment on the quality. I've done about 6, so far. First one I ever did I watched FordTechMakuloco's timing video and I've always used the Ford OEM timing kit he recommends on Amazon.

By the way, how many miles do you have? I apologize if you already stated this. I've got a 2007 F-150 with this very engine. 165k miles on it. Luckily, I have not had to do timing work on mine, yet. Quiet as silk.

I have 170k on mine. Like mentioned earlier...it’s quiet when running. The start up clatter is what got me going down this road.

I also watched the FordTechMakuLoco video and he stated that this issue (timing chain tensioner) is one NOT to let go since it has domino effect causing several other issues.

For the most part...other than cam phasers and the chain tensioner...I hear these are pretty durable engines. If I get another 100k (which I KNOW I take care of my vehicles almost obsessively) I’ll be happy.


2007 Ford Expedition Limited
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[NobodySpecial]

about 160k miles now, occasional long cold soak startup rattles started at about 150k

I'm sure it'll be a fantastic performer once the work is done. After new timing kits on these engines, they seem to be pretty darn reliable. Those original plastic tensioners with the failure prone gaskets are probably about 95% of the 5.4L engine problems.

 

[NobodySpecial]

I have 170k on mine. Like mentioned earlier...it’s quiet when running. The start up clatter is what got me going down this road.

I also watched the FordTechMakuLoco video and he stated that this issue (timing chain tensioner) is one NOT to let go since it has domino effect causing several other issues.

For the most part...other than cam phasers and the chain tensioner...I hear these are pretty durable engines. If I get another 100k (which I KNOW I take care of my vehicles almost obsessively) I’ll be happy.


2007 Ford Expedition Limited
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Yeah, usually the cam phaser failures a lot of the time is just a symptom of a bad tensioner gasket. When those gaskets fail, it can cause a drop in oil flow to the phaser and causes it to knock/fail. Once you get the work done, you'll probably have an engine that will go at least another 100k. Maybe even 200k.

 

[wingrider]

Best to try and replace all the parts in there if you're in there. As others have noted, replace the oil pump. There are 5.4 pumps out there that have forged pump gears and O-Ring upgrades to maintain pressure and volume. Also Forged crank gears exist.

I went into my 2011 GT500 motor (nothing broken or worn) to increase the volume of my oil pump for track duties and ended up replacing pretty much all those parts via Ford Racing, JDM Engineering, or third parties as some referenced here. Replaced all the stuff that comes in contact with the pump- because going in there I'd rather be in there only once. Some of the parts are priced reasonably, it's the labor and downtime that kills you once you commit and crack that front engine cover open.

 

[JExpedition07]

Absolutely, I understand. Unfortunately, many people have been financially devastated by this particular engine. So many cut corners on the part of Ford. When you get the work done, make sure they add in a Melling HV pump. Really does wonders for this engine and the VCT operation.

Also forgot to mention, I ordered an OEM oil pump from Ford some time ago to prep for this. Is the oem pump really that bad? I was planning on just using the new Ford pump with the new timing components, the original made it to 160k after all:

 

[wingrider]

I guess a phone call to these guys would say if they would bolt up. I'd wager yes.

Ford Racing? pump
https://www.teamjdm.com/2013-2014-s...oil-pump-fits-4-6l-5-4l-5-8l-modular-engines/

Gears
https://www.teamjdm.com/billet-oil-pump-gears-4-6l-5-4l-5-8l-modular/