JExpedition07
That One Member
That could be piston slap, and if so it’s normal for some modular engines for whatever reason. Forged pistons.
Last edited:
Noise on start up
- Thread starter Shantheman73
- Start date
Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission.
That could be piston slap, and if so it’s normal for some modular engines for whatever reason. Forged pistons.
OP
OP
Shantheman73
Full Access Members
Last night I put oil, bars engine stop leak, and a new motorcraft filter. I drove it around for about an hour.
Still had some chain slap at start up several hours later. The thing purrs once it’s running.
I’d love to not have to drop $2.5k in it. How long would it take for bars to work ya think?
Btw...when i bought it in December...the heads on it were crazy clean compared to rest of engine. I’m suspicious a previous owner either did the phasers or locked them out. My oil mpg is 12-13 around town (maybe they’re already locked?)
Again...I would LOVE to not drop $2.5k if i could maybe eek another year or two out of it.
2007 Ford Expedition Limited
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Still had some chain slap at start up several hours later. The thing purrs once it’s running.
I’d love to not have to drop $2.5k in it. How long would it take for bars to work ya think?
Btw...when i bought it in December...the heads on it were crazy clean compared to rest of engine. I’m suspicious a previous owner either did the phasers or locked them out. My oil mpg is 12-13 around town (maybe they’re already locked?)
Again...I would LOVE to not drop $2.5k if i could maybe eek another year or two out of it.
2007 Ford Expedition Limited
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
The 'knock' sound when cold, could be your exhaust manifolds leaking. The bolts break and warp them. They expand when they heat up and seal. Sooner or later more studs will break or the manifold will crack. One side wound up cracking on mine. Listen down by the wheel wells, right after starting. Owning a Ford is not fun. This will probably be my last one.
OP
OP
Shantheman73
Full Access Members
See the 5 second video of me starting it in my first post. It’s the consensus we’re hearing the timing chain slap.
2007 Ford Expedition Limited
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
07navi
Full Access Members
Some do that but all vehicles have their own faults that are pretty consistent and that one is not hard to fix. It's the Excursion v-10 that had the exhaust manifold problem big time plus the studs broke inside the head and they were hard to get to but it didn't stop people from buying them, in fact they are getting more popular. The OP definitely doesn't have an exhaust problem, and the cold exhaust problem is more of a tick than a knock (at least in the first stage). The grass isn't greener on the other side of the fence.
07navi
Full Access Members
Yes it purrs once it's running because the tensioner is pumped up and it becomes "normal" again.
Takes at least a week or so for the stuff to start to swell up the O-rings and gaskets inside. What is the oil capacity of your vehicle as I don't remember the year?
The older ones were rated a 6 quart capacity but most people that fill them up to the actual full Mark end up putting six and a half almost 7 qts when they do an oil change. If yours holds over 5 quarts you really should add an extra half a bottle or 3/4 of a bottle of the bars leak. It's only design for a 5 quart capacity system and you're late not getting enough of the seal sweller if you only put one in a 6 + quart crankcase.
07navi
Full Access Members
I just bought my 07 but I think it's 7 quarts.
OP
OP
Shantheman73
Full Access Members
The Bars says it’s for 4-6 qts of fresh oil. I think I put in around 5.5 plus the Bars.
2007 Ford Expedition Limited
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I thought pretty much the newer ones we're higher-capacity like the old ones too. All I'm saying is you want a nice Strong full dose. I also recommend using high mileage oil as it has some seal conditioners in it too. I would put 1 5 -2 bottles of bars leak in it because even gone by the recommended dosage for being on the Lower Side 8 quarts would be two bottles.
It's not like this stuff is thick like motor honey and going to clog up anything so a little bit too much isn't going to hurt in my opinion or my experience. But too little might not do anything. It's all about conditioning those rubber gaskets that are kind of like O-rings to get them to plump up a little bit.
I'm doing a little experiment with the bars right now on a hundred and 172k Town Car that has had a leak by the oil filter adapter for probably two years now.
When the temperatures get colder outside it will drip drip drip for 3 or 4 minutes but only enough to put a small puddle on the ground.
It completely seals off and you can drive the car all day long multiple trips or the California and it won't leak a drop after it warms up. It also hardly leaks when the temperatures are above 60 or so.
I have much more faith in the Blue Devil products as I have seen them work darn near miracles in less than a week but I had a bottle of bars that was on clearance cheap so I decided to try it.
Last check it had noticeably slowed down the lake so I'm going to keep an eye on it. This was only on a 5 to 5.5 quart capacity though.
I'm guessing if I would have spent the 15 to 20 bucks for the Blue Devil it would already be dry as a bone. That stuff works! So give it to the three weeks or add another 1/2 to 3/4 bottle and see if you get an improvement and if you do get noticeable results consider using the Blue Devil because it will really kick it in the butt.
Also, I don't remember what kind of oil you use or if you said. There are times when a conventional can seep and bypass less than a full synthetic in these situations. But I certainly recommend a high mileage one either way you go.
OP
OP
Shantheman73
Full Access Members
One thing I noticed this morning is that the thicker oil (b/c of the Bars) actually made it rattle longer on start up...which makes sense when it’s cold.
Hope this stuff works somewhat!
2007 Ford Expedition Limited
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
07navi
Full Access Members
Yes non synthetic would probably be better for this since synth has smaller and more uniform molecules which is why some people develop leaks that weren't there before they started using it.
Yep, people want to argue that there's no difference with modern synthetics and that only happened in the old days with the original formulations but that's not exactly true. Synthetic will find its way into nooks and crannies and out of small holes that conventional oil never could.
I really don't think there's any way that that 8 to 12 oz bottle of bars leak which is only like a 30 or 40 weight oil could change viscosity enough to be causing the difference. Anything you noticed is probably related to the oil you used or the temperature. I have noticed quite a bit of differences and start up taking a noises with different oils and different weights.
OP
OP
Shantheman73
Full Access Members
Yeah, I went with a heavier weight oil too...10w30. (I’d been using 5w30).
I also noticed motorcraft filters have an ‘s’ series which I guess stands for silicone? It was pricier but figured I’d try it hoping it was even a little bit better quality.
2007 Ford Expedition Limited
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
07navi
Full Access Members
Yes the s is for the silicon based anti-drainback valve. Motorcraft and Ford go together and these are the only filters I will use in any Ford. The drainback is important and I have used others years ago but had drainback problems which caused a rattle at start-up and starving at the top end.
Last edited:
I also feel that the thicker oil is better for tensioner seal issues but sometimes things happen backwards and will surprise you.
I remember having one Higher mile Ford engine that was actually quieter on Startup with 5w 30 then with 10w30. It kind of depends how long of sitting for... like five days might be more than just overnight.
A lot of variables going on and not every engine is going to be the same. It also depends if it is the tensioner is just worn quite a bit and needs to be pushed hard against the chain or if it is actually leaking oil pressure around the seal.
Sometimes the commonly argued theory that the thinner oil will get to the parts and lubricate quicker is true and other times the thicker oil leaves a better film and bypasses less around any seal issues.
In some situations the only way to tell is to test each way.
You want to go thinner, not thicker. This is not 1976. Thicker oil starves the top end on modular V8s. There have been numerous post, about cam followers coming off. It also takes longer to pump to phasers and tensioners. You will make your cold start issue worse.
Not always. As I said before sometimes things don't work by the normal parameters like we would expect. Also, while modular Ford do you have smaller oil passages 10 W 30 doesn't starve the top end on a modular. 10w30 still flows quite well unless you get down to temperatures below 15 degrees or so... especially if it's a full synthetic.
and this poster situation though we're not talking about cam followers. The most likely problem is the tensioner gasket seal is leaking so the tensioner does it stay pumped up with oil after it sits and it leaks a little bit when the oil pressure hits it so it takes a few seconds 4 it to push the tensioner foot out to tighten up the chain. And these situations many people have found that a thicker oil works better, bypasses the gasket less, and makes the engine quieter quicker after startup then with a thinner oil.
But as I said my last post that is not always the case. You would pretty much have to try a 5w20 and then a 10w30 to see exactly how it works on each specific engine.
But the overall point remains that it doesn't hurt and is often a good idea to try different weights of oil within reason and also Tri standard conventional oil and synthetic to see if one makes it better.
People always say synthetic will always be better but not necessarily. Sometimes synthetic is so slippery that are all drains off and ends up in the pan more or as conventional oil lingers and fills the voids and places inside the tensioner better so when you start it up it pushes the foot out faster.
JExpedition07
That One Member
7 days since I ordered from Tasca Ford and still no promised email or text order/ship confirmations and no customer service response as usual lol. They charged me of course, how can you charge me a few hundred dollars but not confirm the order in 5 days? Going to have my credit card company dispute the charges and cancel the order at this point. This is twice now Tasca has burned me, another time they didn’t send some parts I payed for with the order (manifold gaskets + studs) and they didn’t pick up the phone or return my emails.
Last edited:
Similar threads
