Noise on start up

[rjdelp7]

Not always. As I said before sometimes things don't work by the normal parameters like we would expect. Also, while modular Ford do you have smaller oil passages 10 W 30 doesn't starve the top end on a modular. 10w30 still flows quite well unless you get down to temperatures below 15 degrees or so... especially if it's a full synthetic.
and this poster situation though we're not talking about cam followers. The most likely problem is the tensioner gasket seal is leaking so the tensioner does it stay pumped up with oil after it sits and it leaks a little bit when the oil pressure hits it so it takes a few seconds 4 it to push the tensioner foot out to tighten up the chain. And these situations many people have found that a thicker oil works better, bypasses the gasket less, and makes the engine quieter quicker after startup then with a thinner oil.
But as I said my last post that is not always the case. You would pretty much have to try a 5w20 and then a 10w30 to see exactly how it works on each specific engine.
But the overall point remains that it doesn't hurt and is often a good idea to try different weights of oil within reason and also Tri standard conventional oil and synthetic to see if one makes it better.
People always say synthetic will always be better but not necessarily. Sometimes synthetic is so slippery that are all drains off and ends up in the pan more or as conventional oil lingers and fills the voids and places inside the tensioner better so when you start it up it pushes the foot out faster.

You expertise is what? Some old Excursions? Members should not give any tips, that may harm or damage a Expedition. I personally believe the problem is the high idle, right after start up. I have driven many 4.6L, 6.8l v10 and a couple 5.4l. All slightly rev high when cold, but my 2001 inteh 32V 4.6l, revs really high(for about 5sec), right after starting. It also had a slight rattle or tick for a 1-2 seconds. The switch to mobil 1 and a non-paper filter(mobil 1, ultra synthetic fram) fixed the noise. Synthetic oil flows quicker and new filters, are less restrictive. Does anyone know how to adjust, the cold start engine rpm? There has been a couple of times, I was running late and had to sit there for around 15-20 sec for the idle to to drop below 1400. I have been told by a dealer, it's best to leave it alone and normal.

 

[07navi]

You expertise is what? Some old Excursions? Members should not give any tips, that may harm or damage a Expedition. I personally believe the problem is the high idle, right after start up. I have driven many 4.6L, 6.8l v10 and a couple 5.4l. All slightly rev high when cold, but my 2001 inteh 32V 4.6l, revs really high(for about 5sec), right after starting. It also had a slight rattle or tick for a 1-2 seconds. The switch to mobil 1 and a non-paper filter(mobil 1, ultra synthetic fram) fixed the noise. Synthetic oil flows quicker and new filters, are less restrictive. Does anyone know how to adjust, the cold start engine rpm? There has been a couple of times, I was running late and had to sit there for around 15-20 sec for the idle to to drop below 1400. I have been told by a dealer, it's best to leave it alone and normal.

Toby is right on and you a wrong about the high idle. Did you even listen to the audio video from the OP? Talk about giving tips...…..

 

[rjdelp7]

Toby is right on and you a wrong about the high idle. Did you even listen to the audio video from the OP? Talk about giving tips...…..

They company I work for have a fleet of E450 superduty with the 6.8l V10. A few of the motors went(around150K-200k mi) . They all started to make that same noise. It only gets worse over time. I believe it's a combination of poor design, bad maintenance and running 1-2qts low at times. They tried everything,like Lucas oil treatment and it doesn't work. One had a clogged oil pick up, from the shredded guides. The oil light would come on making turns. It lasted for about 12,000 more miles however. It had around 235,000 on it when it was junked.

 

[07navi]

They company I work for have a fleet of E450 superduty with the 6.8l V10. A few of the motors went(around150K-200k mi) . They all started to make that same noise. It only gets worse over time. I believe it's a combination of poor design, bad maintenance and running 1-2qts low at times. They tried everything,like Lucas oil treatment and it doesn't work. One had a clogged oil pick up, from the shredded guides. The oil light would come on making turns. It lasted for about 12,000 more miles however. It had around 235,000 on it when it was junked.

My excursion had over 200k miles on it and purred like a kitten, you have to keep the oil level up in them all the time.

 

[TobyU]

You expertise is what? Some old Excursions? Members should not give any tips, that may harm or damage a Expedition. I personally believe the problem is the high idle, right after start up. I have driven many 4.6L, 6.8l v10 and a couple 5.4l. All slightly rev high when cold, but my 2001 inteh 32V 4.6l, revs really high(for about 5sec), right after starting. It also had a slight rattle or tick for a 1-2 seconds. The switch to mobil 1 and a non-paper filter(mobil 1, ultra synthetic fram) fixed the noise. Synthetic oil flows quicker and new filters, are less restrictive. Does anyone know how to adjust, the cold start engine rpm? There has been a couple of times, I was running late and had to sit there for around 15-20 sec for the idle to to drop below 1400. I have been told by a dealer, it's best to leave it alone and normal.

The problem is from the original posters comments and video this is not a cam phaser issue. Your comments regarding synthetic oil and lighter viscosity are all relevant to cam phaser issues but this doesn't seem to be what the poster has an issue with.
Synthetic oil flowing better usually does not help a timing chain tensioner seal leakage issue.
Are you familiar with this issue? It is where the small gasket that goes behind the tensioner warps or cracks away or the rubber part of the seal no longer seals and the cavity and the tensioner doesn't maintain pressure like it should. Synthetic oil can actually extrapolate this problem.
And while in a colder climate 10 w30 would not be the best for a 5.4 3 valve with cam phasers, it's not going to cause any issues and temperatures above 40.
Sometimes there's not a perfect solution and there has to be a slight trade-off.

As far as the fast idle when they start up there's not much you can do unless you get into computer programming or tuners. Not even sure if any of the normal tuners would allow for this but it is controlled by the PCM controlling the air bypass valve so if you can get into the programming you could certainly make it start at a lower speed if you can have the computer close the bypass valve more.
This would apply to the old ones like you were talking about and the new ones are even more computer-controlled with throttle-by-wire Etc but it's still the same difference. The computer controls everything and there's no way you can circumvent it because it would just compensate and put it back to where it's supposed to be. You would have to alter the computer program parameters to change startup Behavior.

 

[rjdelp7]

The problem is from the original posters comments and video this is not a cam phaser issue. Your comments regarding synthetic oil and lighter viscosity are all relevant to cam phaser issues but this doesn't seem to be what the poster has an issue with.
Synthetic oil flowing better usually does not help a timing chain tensioner seal leakage issue.
Are you familiar with this issue? It is where the small gasket that goes behind the tensioner warps or cracks away or the rubber part of the seal no longer seals and the cavity and the tensioner doesn't maintain pressure like it should. Synthetic oil can actually extrapolate this problem.
And while in a colder climate 10 w30 would not be the best for a 5.4 3 valve with cam phasers, it's not going to cause any issues and temperatures above 40.
Sometimes there's not a perfect solution and there has to be a slight trade-off.

As far as the fast idle when they start up there's not much you can do unless you get into computer programming or tuners. Not even sure if any of the normal tuners would allow for this but it is controlled by the PCM controlling the air bypass valve so if you can get into the programming you could certainly make it start at a lower speed if you can have the computer close the bypass valve more.
This would apply to the old ones like you were talking about and the new ones are even more computer-controlled with throttle-by-wire Etc but it's still the same difference. The computer controls everything and there's no way you can circumvent it because it would just compensate and put it back to where it's supposed to be. You would have to alter the computer program parameters to change startup Behavior.

Ford supposedly upgraded the chain tensioners, to the 'older' trouble free design. Ford also fixed the cam phaser problem, around 2008. It's interesting the problem is back in the EcoBoost. GM and MOPAR still using push rod, conventional valvetrain.

 

[JExpedition07]

Got through to Tasca Parts today over the phone. They said they had to special order some parts from Ford and didn’t know why I haven’t received confirmation. Sent a new email confirmation and said all parts are in the shipping lane as of 2 today so they are shipping out tonight. Cool didn’t want to have to go through disputing the charges or any of that jazz. Only on hold for 15 minutes today that wasn’t too bad compared to last time I called them. They made it right.

 

[JExpedition07]

Also Ford still uses the newer style hydraulic actuated plastic tensioners with the metal arm thingy. The new ones have a white O-ring instead of brown (different material) and a groove that the O-ring sits in so it can’t blow out like the original 3V units. Part of the reason I trust the Ford oil pump is extra volume may blow these gaskets out easier on the aftermarket ones. Stuck with 100% oem parts here.

 

[07navi]

Also Ford still uses the newer style hydraulic actuated plastic tensioners with the metal arm thingy. The new ones have a white O-ring instead of brown (different material) and a groove that the O-ring sits in so it can’t blow out like the original 3V units. Part of the reason I trust the Ford oil pump is extra volume may blow these gaskets out easier on the aftermarket ones. Stuck with 100% oem parts here.

All the tensioners have the groove around the outside now but I don't think the color change will help anything. They need to redesign all of them so none blow out. Maybe they did but the aftermarket ones look the same.

 

[TobyU]

Ford supposedly upgraded the chain tensioners, to the 'older' trouble free design. Ford also fixed the cam phaser problem, around 2008. It's interesting the problem is back in the EcoBoost. GM and MOPAR still using push rod, conventional valvetrain.

Yes, but none of this has to do with saying we shouldn't tell someone to put thicker oil or try different kinds to reduce the tensioner o-ring seepage.
We're getting into different types of problems with the three valve. All the multiple problems are the reason I won't own one.
I might eventually own one but hopefully by that time it will be so old that is already had upgraded Parts on it and it will be fixed for the Long Haul. But for now I'll just stick with the older stuff up to 2004.

 

[Shantheman73]

I did a 5hr trip today with the Expy. Hoping i'll see (hear) some improvement after trying the Bar's. If not...I still don't know what to do. Dropping $2500 in it seems awfully steep right now. I'm wondering how many more miles I can get out of it or if I should bite the bullet & do the fix hoping I don't have to put another cent into it for a while.

 

[07navi]

I did a 5hr trip today with the Expy. Hoping i'll see (hear) some improvement after trying the Bar's. If not...I still don't know what to do. Dropping $2500 in it seems awfully steep right now. I'm wondering how many more miles I can get out of it or if I should bite the bullet & do the fix hoping I don't have to put another cent into it for a while.

I wouldn't worry about it, it only rattles for 1 or 2 seconds and surely doing zero damage to the guides. If it gets worse then worry about it. Like I said, my v-10 which has the same setup less the VCT's and it rattled for 2 winters and I could hear it 50 yards away for 5-10 minutes and the guides were like new when I finally replaced the 2 tensioners. It sounds worse than it is.

 

[TobyU]

Clean it up nicely detail it out and sell it. Put the 2500 with it and buy something else.

I don't remember what year we were talking but I think it was a 2008 so this might be financially prudent. If it was newer it wouldn't be.
I can normally sell a vehicle and put the money it would have cost to fix it with that money and go buy another vehicle that's nicer than what I started with.
Of course that doesn't work with vehicles under a few years old.

 

[Shantheman73]

Clean it up nicely detail it out and sell it. Put the 2500 with it and buy something else.

I don't remember what year we were talking but I think it was a 2008 so this might be financially prudent. If it was newer it wouldn't be.
I can normally sell a vehicle and put the money it would have cost to fix it with that money and go buy another vehicle that's nicer than what I started with.
Of course that doesn't work with vehicles under a few years old.

It’s a 2007. I bought it early Dec and have already put about $2k in it (tires, brakes all around, starter, a/c compressor, coil packs and plugs). I used to detail in my college days so the Expy looks amazing.

Selling it now would mean taking a bigger loss than just the purchase price.

I’d hate to burn the engine up, but if I can get another year out of it I’d be pleased.


2007 Ford Expedition Limited
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[Shantheman73]

It’s a 2007. I bought it early Dec and have already put about $2k in it (tires, brakes all around, starter, a/c compressor, coil packs and plugs). I used to detail in my college days so the Expy looks amazing.

Selling it now would mean taking a bigger loss than just the purchase price.

I’d hate to burn the engine up, but if I can get another year out of it I’d be pleased.


2007 Ford Expedition Limited
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Adding to that: if I thought putting the $2500 in it would be the last fix I have to do...I’d be tempted. I’m concerned it’ll just keep needing other costly repairs.


2007 Ford Expedition Limited
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[07navi]

Adding to that: if I thought putting the $2500 in it would be the last fix I have to do...I’d be tempted. I’m concerned it’ll just keep needing other costly repairs.


2007 Ford Expedition Limited
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The VCT's have probably already been replaced and don't automatically go bad. Shop around and just replace the tensioners, chain, and maybe guides(probably not), When I tore into mine I just replaced 2 tensioners...…...that's it! No rubber gaskets, nothing.

 

[TobyU]

It’s a 2007. I bought it early Dec and have already put about $2k in it (tires, brakes all around, starter, a/c compressor, coil packs and plugs). I used to detail in my college days so the Expy looks amazing.

Selling it now would mean taking a bigger loss than just the purchase price.

I’d hate to burn the engine up, but if I can get another year out of it I’d be pleased.


2007 Ford Expedition Limited
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We got to get you doing own repairs or find you a good guy on the side that installs your parts.
When you have to pay retail prices on repairs then the amount in it builds up so quickly that it becomes a money pit or at least a loose -loose, sadly.
What are they going for with your miles on them? 7500-8500 in nice condition?
What you put in it in repairs is water under the bridge now.
If you sell for 6000-7000 and put 2500 with it you could buy 8500-9500 vehicle and a pit of nice options in that price range.
Just considering options.
You could also use a 0% interest card or plan to pay for it to not bite into funds and pay it off before interest or transfer balance to another 0 or low interest before interest is applied.
You could also check local JVC schools to see if they still fix area residents autos. They do it cheaply.

 

[07navi]

It’s a 2007. I bought it early Dec and have already put about $2k in it (tires, brakes all around, starter, a/c compressor, coil packs and plugs). I used to detail in my college days so the Expy looks amazing.

Selling it now would mean taking a bigger loss than just the purchase price.

I’d hate to burn the engine up, but if I can get another year out of it I’d be pleased.


2007 Ford Expedition Limited
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You won't burn it up...…..hang in there.

 

[Shantheman73]

Update: Expy is at the shop having tensioners fixed. Got a call today that they found a lifter that’s was collapsing and a bad roller. Camshafts looked good thankfully.

Nothing more money can’t solve. [emoji2959]

Hopefully this will all give me many more miles of motoring.


2007 Ford Expedition Limited
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[JExpedition07]

Good call, no reason to keep starving your top end for oil. In all honesty yours sounded pretty bad, when mine was rattling it wasn’t nearly as loud. I think your chain was slapping the timing cover.