Oil analysis as a predictor for cam phaser/timing chain/cam/follower issues?

[Richard_S]

I've been around engines for 40 plus years as well as aircraft piston and jet engines. I'm a fan of the oil analysis, its whats used on jet engines to keep an eye on certain types of bearing materials, if they spike then there is an impending failure that needs to be looked into and based on what the material is, then they know what bearing to look at. On our engines, a spike in coolant can give a clue that the water pump is starting to fail or coolant from somewhere is getting into the oil long before the oil gets the milky look to it.

Anyway on my 2012 5.4l I've used ford motorcraft full synthetic oil and filters and changed it 5 to 7k miles and don't have any timing noise on startup so far. 224k as of today.

 

[Trainmaster]

I've used ford motorcraft full synthetic oil and filters and changed it 5 to 7k miles and don't have any timing noise on startup so far. 224k as of today.

That's extremely encouraging news!

 

[Idahokid]

I work in the heavy duty truck world.(Kenworth).Many of my customers use uoa for their maintenance programs.But you have to do more then one.You have to do several to set a pattern or trend if you will.You can’t do one and call it good.An oil analysts will reveal several things.If There’s dirt in your Oil you would be looking for an intake air filtration issue for example.It will tell you if you’re getting coolant in your oil even if you can’t tell.It can be very informative.I do it on my Harley.

 

[inmanlanier]

You are right on target Idahokid. I'll be sampling every 5K going forward at least for one more run. I just want to make sure my metal numbers are drain interval based, vs. wear based. Unfortunately I've concluded that the gasket failure may be the main initiator, and start-up clatter is likely the symptom.

 

[ExpeditionAndy]

Andy - good for you, let's keep in contact with each other. Can you share with me what's going on with your fuel? I hope you've reached out to Ford on that.

Jeff - let's see if this works - first time attaching. The only number of note is iron, hence why I'll swap now and trend. I hope it's not a cam lobe

To others - way back in the early 80s I was running Amsoil and extended intervals. I got my analysis for free because my bud bought all his oil from one shop and that was a service for him. On one car I actually put in one of the bypass filters - and sure enough the next interval it actually made the oil a little cleaner. That was a long time ago when with the research my other (engineer) bud was doing I realized I no longer needed to worry about synthetics. Whenever I own a car, once out of warranty I've switched to synthetics and extended drains. The only issue I had was a bearing knock on a Lincoln I got from my folks - shortly after getting said Lincoln the oil plug fell out of the pan (my wife immediately shut down and called me (oil light, arghh!). I found the plug - it was a 'repair' plug - they had stripped the pan threads. I towed it home and replaced the pan. The car ran fine for another 3 years until the bearing knock. When I ran extended intervals I used to change the filters at 5K, then 7.5K, then my (engineer) bud's research convinced me I was wasting my time since the filters were fully capable of running to 15K, expecially with today's cylinder wall quality, ring technology, filter size, efficiency, etc. BTW - the plug failure we called in our industry 'maintenance induced failures' - you got that right - the more we had them turn wrenches, the more chance of failures induced due to wrench turners - hence our strive for the right balance between doing when needed or unnecessary work where you set yourself up for someone to cause damage.

I'll try and remember to post my 5K sample (perhaps under a different heading). That will likely be a year or so.

See attached per your request, Jeff.

@inmainlanier - here is my latest oil report at 21,000 miles. Ford says there is no recall or fix for the higher amount of fuel in the oil. It is lower again this time. Read the top of the report.

 

[ExpeditionAndy]

Andy,

I assume so correct me if I'm wrong but you are using the same make & grade oil for each of your Blackstone reports? I also assume that you aren't lugging the engine but fuel blow-by dilution caused that Flashpoint & Viscosity to drop. The 240F that shows in the Feb/18 report is getting lower than you really want.



jeff

Yes I have been using full synthetic since the first oil change. It is the regular Ford full synthetic oil.

 

[inmanlanier]

My replacement oil (much to my Chagrin) to the sample posted above was Mobil Super Synthetic vs. the prior Mobil 1. I say chagrin because the difference between the oils is as clear as mud, I ended up with the oil as a horse swap with my son who didn't clearly read the label on the gallons!

In any case, this discussion is really no longer applicable to the predictive measure of the subject of this post - instead it's really about oils and drain intervals, so I posted my recent oil analysis at https://www.expeditionforum.com/threads/oil-and-filter-time.40906/page-2.

The short summary is that since the oil was different, I did a mid cycle sample. The wear materials were commensurately lower than the previous 15K sample. As such, I'll likely finish this oil also at 15K. If you want to see the analysis - go to the post just above this paragraph.

 

[ExpeditionAndy]

This is my latest oil report at 25986 Miles back on 10/24.

 

[inmanlanier]

For those of you who tracked the oil analysis of this post, I have another 15K interval on Mobil Super Syn oil. Go to https://www.expeditionforum.com/threads/oil-and-filter-time.40906/ for my report on the 2nd 15K synthetic interval.

 

[07navi]

Aye, Vey! Sometimes I wonder.

Anytime you folks wish to opine on topics with or without data on topics not related to what is respectfully asked, please do so somewhere else.

I'm simply trying to see if this topic has been addressed. I've seen two affirmative comments regarding how "An oil analysis won’t be able to tell you timing components are having issues". Can anyone provide the basis for these remarks? Here's what I mean by that.

Engine blocks are made of iron based alloys or aluminum based alloys; hence why iron is a main component in the oil analysis. I believe that camshafts are also still iron based due to it's superior wear resistance. I saw photos of my bud's 2010 that used the Ford oil changed at the Ford intervals, religiously performed. One of his rockers showed significant material loss as well as the corresponding cam lobe. Do you think that iron went and hid as blockage in the oil passages that fed it?? C'mon people, try and be a little reasonable here. OF COURSE the iron wear would have been higher.

On topic, please - any other input?

I agree with others, and that analysis thing is a bunch of hogwash designed to make money. All you can do is use good oil, change it on time, don't overheat the engine, don't hot rod it, etc. That's all you can do, there is no silver bullet. You can talk all day about woulda' shoulda' coulda' but it means nothing. You can get 10 oil reports that did nothing but drain your wallet. Yes this is on topic.