Paint Bubbling, We need EVERYONE to register a complaint! READ FORDS RESPONSE!!!

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bobmbx

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I encourage anyone interested to read on on “age hardening” of aluminum alloys, a process that Flexpedition thinks is non existent even though it’s been throughly proven and there have been many studies on it as well as the other effects of aging and corrosion on aluminum alloys. it’s not a forever material by any means. :) Another reason why many stopped using it on larger vessels after experimentation with the material.

Both of these ships are brand new. And they are structurally 100% aluminum. Hull, superstructure, innards. (Full disclosure: IMO, its possibly the worst concept and designed ship since pre-WWII)
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JExpedition07

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Both of these ships are brand new. And they are structurally 100% aluminum. Hull, superstructure, innards. (Full disclosure: IMO, its possibly the worst concept and designed ship since pre-WWII)
View attachment 23792

Steel is a stronger material no matter how we look at it. Which is why it’s more expensive and weighs in more. Sure the F-150 has good crash ratings but it’s no thanks to aluminum, it’s the crumple zones.


Here is the US’ latest aircraft carrier, USS Gerald R. Ford, made of steel;)

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GaryH2

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Your 2016 should be warranted I’d take it in, be aware it will come back even after the warranty “repair” but it may buy you a year. They aren’t going to give a new tailgate they are just going to repaint the contaminated panel and unfortunately it will be back..... I just try to ignore it.
That's why you should get a silver Expy. Once the paint peels off, the chalking blends in with the rest of the truck. [emoji23]

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Dorzak

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When it comes time to upgrade my 2015 Expedtion Limited 4x4, I would never consider a new Ford product made with aluminum panels because Ford does not know how to paint an aluminum panel without corrosion starting within several years.

How does GM and FCA paint their aluminum panels without corrosion starting so quickly?

(The paint on backside of my rear hatch began to corrode and bubble before the new car warranty had expired. The vehicle was purchased new and never damaged or wrecked.)

Actually there are complaints of similar issues, and even GM issues with steel panels doing similar things going back years. It isn't unique to Ford my stepdad's 1991 Chevy S-10 had this on the hood in 1994 with a steel hood.

Here are some references for similar threads -
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/Discussion-t31924_ds653836
http://www.gminsidenews.com/forums/f22/gmc-savana-paint-peeling-white-276242/
https://forums.iboats.com/forum/oth.../527810-gm-vehicle-paint-delamination-peeling

EDIT: Specifically with aluminum hood - http://www.enclaveforum.net/23-body-exterior/8399-paint-bubbling-problem.html

I spent about 2 hours at the dealer discussing mine and some other issues, and will update when I have more information.
 
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East-TN

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I just discovered my CPO 2016 Ford Expedition EL XLT 4WD purchased last month has this on the tailgate.

Take it to the dealer, along with a copy of TSB 17-0062...they may be able to get the tailgate replaced.
 

Muddy Bean

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The steel aluminum debate is definitely an argument worth having, but I’ll share my experience:

I have owned two difference private coaches. These are actual formerly chartered coaches...not RV’s, not school buses. We all know bad paint chemistry/prep causes paint peel. Several vehicle manufacturers had this issue with their steel bodied vehicles. It’s not just an aluminum panel thing. It’s of course true that aluminum needs special care and handling prep before being painted. When I painted both of my coaches which are entirely covered in aluminum, we had to use alumaprep etching aluminum specific primer before painting. My first coach paint job still looks great 10 years later. So somehow I managed to do a better job than Ford did on their aluminum liftgates. My second coach was painted the same way but the paint job is only a year old so I can’t say how it will hold up long term. I will say this, aluminum does corrode. Instead of rusting away into an orange flake, it just turns into a white powder. This is especially true in places where dissimilar metals are touching each other. For example around the aluminum rivets holding the aluminum coach panels to the steel ribbing there’s galvanic corrosion turning the rivets to powder. My newest coach has an entirely stainless steel frame covered with aluminum body panels with some fiberglass sheet over certain areas so I’ll never see any major rot happen on this one. The first coach I had was a 1984 and even though it had some corrosion, it was very little considering its age and constant bathing in salty roads in Canada it’s entire life. The steel framework was much more corroded than the aluminum so in that case the aluminum held up much much better than the steel did on my old coach.

I can’t say that having either a steel or aluminum body on a car is a bad thing. I can say that if Ford is having paint issues on their aluminum panels, the right thing to do would be research a fix, and repaint or replace the hatches affected. But we all know none of these companies lean towards doing the right thing very often.


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Dorzak

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Take it to the dealer, along with a copy of TSB 17-0062...they may be able to get the tailgate replaced.

I am at 39k miles, and right now dealer has escalated it with Ford. Dealer is talking like they are on my side and Ford should cover it.

EDIT: Ford is going to cover repainting and a rental car for 4 days. One of the things they did was have the service tech put some double sided moulding tape on the spot and peel it off. Some of the paint came with it.
 
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Dorzak

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They are contracting with an outside body shop that is supposed to be capable of painting aluminum to repaint the tailgate. Also Ford is covering a rental. The rental is from Enterprise and is an F-150. The interior is stained, dirty, and damaged. Also less features. Used to think I didn't think people needed a back-up camera, now I don't have one again I miss it.
 

Muddy Bean

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I’m
Sorry if this was mentioned already, but has anyone had their liftgate repainted professionally and it has lasted? Like a permanent fix? If so where did you take your truck?


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fischer5

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Sorry long over due...
I am sorry I do not have any pictures, as I was expecting them from the shop where I had the work done.( didn't happen )

I have a 2011 Black Limited EL, former "Men in Black" Vehicle I bought at 36k miles. Back deck and front hood both had the paint cancer.
As I reported way back I was fed up with Ford not doing anything so looking at $1200.00 or more to have it repainted ( just the rear deck) I decided to go to the salvage yard for a replacement deck. I found one with only very minor cancer on the bottom lip and proceeded to pull mine off and replace it with the salvage one.
After a tedious taking off removing all emblems and stripping it to only the shell I took it to a shop for Powder coating. I found a dealer online in St Petersburg Florida that had the "tuxedo Black" powder to match, but the shop talked me into using a Black powder they had already saving some money.

They proceeded to strip it by sand blasting it down to bare metal. They then applied a Prep coating prior to avoid future galvanic erosion and then an Epoxy powder coating primer.
Last coat was the Black, with metal flake and followed by the clear coats.

Result: The sand blasting was a little too aggressive especially showing minor dimples where the body was unsupported on the inside. The color was not a 100% match , was a little grey and not 100% black, but due to the fact there is not connecting body to really notice it was fine. They did apologize for the "dimples" but at this point not really anything they could do to fix it. I had this done last Oct and to date ( March 2018) it seems to be holding up well. They also guarantee it for three years against any peeling . The clear coat also seems to scratch easier then the OEM painted coating but again this is minor.

Will I get the hood done? No. I am looking at replacing it with an after market Steel hood and having it painted to match. ( I honestly do not trust anyone to paint the aluminum properly where it will not peel again) The hood must match the fenders 100% and this may be an issue, I also think the hood has too many areas and thinner then the deck hatch and the blasting my do more damage which will only show up after the final glossy coats are applied.

Total costs: $900.00 for the salvage deck hatch, still have it in my basement.
$ 500.00 for the powder coating, as this was an extremely low price due to the shop owner gave me a huge brake as a type of R&D project.

Would I do it again ? Yes. However I would pay more for the "tuxedo Black Powder" and match it better and now that I know would ask them to be gentle with the sand blasting and buffing of the final coats.

The BIG Question is: Why doesn't FORD Powder Coat the panels and avoid this whole mess?

And last for those who don't know this Ford and all the other Mfgs contract out the lines in Mfg. A sub contractor on Ford's line has the responsibility for the painting. It is almost impossible to find out the company that has the job, but they put them out for bid. Ford also dictates the "costs" and the final analysis is that they ( sub) are forced to cut corners to make a buck.
By NOT mixing Steel and Aluminum the F150's and trucks should be a much more reliable finish as we all know the aluminum gets contaminated or the "prep" puddles and does not dry properly when they mix the two on the same line. This is NOT unique to Ford, GM, Dodge and others have had the same issue. I promise to post some pictures of the deck when the sun returns to Ct .
Links:
http://www.allpowderpaints.com/powder-coating-colors/ford-tuxedo-black/
 

Im139

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I have bubbling on my 13' black limited EL on the rear at the corner of the chrome trim piece too. I noticed it at 36876 miles when I went to buy out my lease. Dealer told me nothing they could do since I was over my 36000 but were happy to mention the new ones have a better warranty. It's getting worse now that I'm at 56000+. I find it comical that I see this issue rampant throughout my area since I'm in Dearborn and we have plenty of expeditions on the road. Any suggestions on Ford contacts to file complaints to other than the dealership and their customer care line. Dealerships around here get so many A plan and Z plan that they could careless about their reputation.
***UPDATE****
I just spoke with the dealership regarding the bubbling paint. Since I filed a complaint through Ford Motor Company directly, they had the dealership run a quote that came back at $550. The dealership said Ford was willing to cover most of the cost and that a $100 deductible would be the only charge. I'm actually pretty impressed that they just didn't tell me to take a hike.

Does anyone have any suggestions for actions I should take to ensure they do the work correctly? Do they do the entire back or only the spot(s) with bubbling?
 

Muddy Bean

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So I’ve been researching this a little... according to some actual paint chemists studying the Ford paint issue, a repaint may not fix the issue. If it’s true that the bubbling and peeling is being caused by iron contamination embedded in the metal, then we are out of luck. You can paint and paint and paint and the problem will keep resurfacing...please someone correct me if I’m wrong but some people are winning small claims lawsuits because of this. What is the real solution?


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JExpedition07

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So I’ve been researching this a little... according to some actual paint chemists studying the Ford paint issue, a repaint may not fix the issue. If it’s true that the bubbling and peeling is being caused by iron contamination embedded in the metal, then we are out of luck. You can paint and paint and paint and the problem will keep resurfacing...please someone correct me if I’m wrong but some people are winning small claims lawsuits because of this. What is the real solution?


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You're right! Mine was resprayed and it's finally coming back through. Just ignore it it's not hurting anything but appearance.
 

Muddy Bean

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I can’t ignore it when I paid $36,000 for my truck. From everything I’m reading, if I end up having this issue, I’ll respray and sell the truck. Insane customer service fail on Ford’s part.


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East-TN

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My 2015 Explorer is at the dealership right now getting the hood replaced, under warranty. I showed them Fords TSB 17-0062 and where it states to replace (not repair) the panel...suppose to pick up my Explorer today. Hoping for a good paint match.
 

Muddy Bean

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But won’t the replacement hood have the same issue? Or did ford come up with a replacement hood that fixes it?


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JExpedition07

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But won’t the replacement hood have the same issue? Or did ford come up with a replacement hood that fixes it?


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The explorers are hit and miss, lots of them won't get the issue unlike us, we are pretty much guaranteed to get it. My guess is lots of their panels are fine. Replacing a tailgate on the expy? Yea the problem will be back whether you paint the old one again or replace it all together. The supplier had a contamination problem that was never fixed.
 

bobmbx

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So I’ve been researching this a little... according to some actual paint chemists studying the Ford paint issue, a repaint may not fix the issue. If it’s true that the bubbling and peeling is being caused by iron contamination embedded in the metal, then we are out of luck. You can paint and paint and paint and the problem will keep resurfacing...please someone correct me if I’m wrong but some people are winning small claims lawsuits because of this. What is the real solution?


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If this is the case, then a primer formulation (like Kilz) can be developed and applied that counter-acts the steel contamination...if thats what the cause is.
 
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