Travel Trailer fishtailed - Hitch problem? - Any advice?

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Dib52

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Silly question, is the trailer set up for an 1 7/8 ball and you're using a 2 inch? That would create the inability to uncouple.
As far as adjusting tongue weight, the tongue should have additional holes to slide forward or back. If not, the trailer axels could always be moved if its set up with adjustment holes.
 

Stoned06

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Sounds as if your coupler ball latch may be set too tight. Try loosening the nut on it a quarter turn and see if that helps unhooking it.

As far as increasing the tongue weight, just load more gear toward the front of the trailer (in front of the axle). More in the back will decrease it. First you want to determine what the tongue weight actually is. Go to a scale and weigh the Expy with the trailer hitched, then weigh it without. The difference is your tongue weight.
 

DF5.4

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When you say trailer sway control, is that the sway control on the Expedition or is it an extra mechanical setup on the hitch? All WD hitches do is it distributes the tongue weight to both axles on the truck. It does nothing to control sway.

When I tow our 30' TT I add air to the tires to bring the pressure up closer to max to handle the extra load. P rated tires have softer sidewalls than the other load rated tires. Honestly I probably should have spent the extra for D rated tires.

Get everything weighed. Do not trust numbers given to you by salespeople. They will be quoting the numbers published in brochures. I've seen trailers with a published tongue weight of 700 lbs have an actual weight of close to 1000 lbs.
 
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PatW

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The ball says 2 5/16”. We had checked this at the Trailer, and that’s the size it calls for.

The Trailer tires were filled to the max listed on their sides for the trip.

The sway control we currently have is a Sway Bar. That sway bar was in place when we started the trip with the simple hitch, and also after the RV Repair Facility switched us to the WDS. Sway was apparently a problem in both situations, even when the mechanics drove the Expy.

For the future we’ve wondered if we should consider some Anti-Sway system. We really think we shouldn’t have to, but if it’s the only way to be able to tow the Trailer with the Expy, we’d probably “bite the bullet” and pay for it. We have friends who have a much heavier trailer that they tow using a Hensley Hitch, with their Tahoe. We hadn’t seriously considered such an Anti-Sway system, but now . . . ? But that would still leave us with the question of Weight Distribution vs. Sway Control.

And it sounds as if something was basically wrong with our setup, since you other Expy owners haven’t experience problems like ours.

We realize that towing with an SUV is different than with the truck we had before. But something was basically wrong with our towing situation, because the Service Mgr who sold us the WDS and then said our Trailer was still unsafe to tow is himself the owner of an Expedition which he uses for towing. It definitely felt wrong to him. He said that there was nothing more he could do. That’s when we left the TT in RV Storage and went on with our trip with the Expy. And are now trying to figure it all out. Your thoughts and suggestions are very helpful.

We do know for certain that we WILL be sure to weigh everything before a next trip. (And we hope we will be able to do a NEXT TRIP.)

Pat
 
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PatW

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UPDATE: We’re still working on our TT fishtailing mystery/issue. After we’d had it transported back to our nearby city to another RV repair facility (& still no answers), the Lance Camper Corp. then had it transported out to their factory in California.

The trailer frame manufacturer, BAL/Norco, had their reps inspect the frame completely. The TT was empty. They said that everything checked out OK. They said that there was no indication that the frame components had been deflected or bent beyond their design limitations. They test-towed it on various road and at varied speeds with an SUV, a ½-ton Chevy Suburban, a factory supplied hitch, no equalizer system, and no sway bar. Their conclusion was that “the trailer is in proper towing condition and it has no apparent defect.” We’ve also had our Expedition checked over several times, and it’s fine.

To further unravel our mystery and - hopefully be able to hit the road (Oops, shouldn’t continue to use that expression after our fishtailing scare!) - I mean, resume travel with our TT - we need to see how it functions when it is NOT EMPTY, with contents aboard. Therefore, we plan to drive our Expedition out to the Lance factory later his month, about 600 miles from our home. We’ll be sure to post those Updated Results after it has all been figured out (and we hope to resume travel with it).

To gain more info, we also posted our issue on the Lance Camper Owners’ Forum. None of those TT owners had experienced such fishtailing problems. Their comments centered around the same issues as in this Forum, and suggestions were largely about weight distribution, tires/wheels, and tongue weight imbalance.

In analyzing it, we think certain issues are all answered as OK and did NOT cause our fishtailing incidents: axles, alignment, tires/tire pressure, speed (65 mph at time), road conditions (normal), weather (clear).

Based on your (VERY HELPFUL) posts (and the Lance Trailer posts) these seem to be THE MAJOR ISSUES we will need to be analyzing on our Factory trip and from this point on:

SETUP, HITCHES, TONGUE WEIGHT, WEIGHT DISTRIBUTION/POSITION OF CONTENTS IN TT, WDS (Hitch #2, the WDS, was TOO heavy - we need one rated to about 800 lbs max.) The hitch should be straight for towing, level from front to back, but we should see some “squat” on the rear of our Expy. If there is somewhere to weigh our TT at the Lance factory, we will weigh our loaded TT. (We plan to do that before any future trips. We’ve located the commercial Truck Weighing Station nearest our home.)

WHEN WE GO TO THE LANCE CAMPER FACTORY:

WHEELS/SPINDLES: We had a question about the TT Wheels/Spindles, so we plan to have them take off the wheels and check the Spindles and the bearings.

SET UP: We expect to set up the trailer with our simple hitch and our sway bar. We’ll make sure that we are doing it correctly. (We can’t use our new WDS, since it is too heavy (1,000 - 1,400 lbs), but we will take it with us for them to analyze it at the factory.)

CONTENTS/CARGO: We won’t be able to take the contents of our TT with us to the factory, but we plan to do the next best thing. We’re weighing the bins and items we had with us to try to replicate their weight. The cheapest, easiest way for us to replicate that weight seems to be to buy - near the factory - bags of water softener salt (20, 25, 40 lb bags) and position them in the compartments the way we had our cargo.

TONGUE WEIGHT: The biggest issue most likely to have caused our fishtailing seems to be the trailer tongue weight. We’ve now bought our own Sherline Trailer Tongue Weight Scale. (We’ll remember -10 to 15 % of trailer weight.) (Thanks for that advice and info!!) Thanks to your posts, we decided it was absolutely essential for us to always have a scale with us if we hope to continue trailering safely. We’ll take it with us to the factory, too.

We’ll update you after our trip. Any other thoughts? We always welcome your help, advice, comments. And, again, we thank you all!
 

DF5.4

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See if they can give you actual weights. This will be a good starting point for you before you load it up. Get the weight of the TT and the actual tongue weight. If they can't give it to you find a truck scale on the way home and get them. Then it wouldn't be a bad idea to get the same weights after it's loaded up and ready to go.

Search the RV forum and there should be a procedure people use when getting weights at a truck scale. You can get the total weight, weight on each axle, and tongue weight.
 

DevonD

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Does the TT have any suspension or are the axles fixed to the frame? If the TT has fixed axles and the tounge of the trailer is not level with the trailer then it could possibly be picking up one of the axles on the trailer causing the tires on one of the axles to not have any weight on them thus causing it to sway. Might need to adjust ball height on expedition. The only other cause like quiet a few people mentioned is tongue weight. You are always better off have more weight on the back of your vehicle. I haul a 8000lb skid loader quiet a bit with my expi and use a car trailer. Between the trailer and skid loader it is a GW of 9500. I have never had any problems with swaying. I always make sure that the back of the expi is squatted down, meaning that there is plenty of weight on the ball. If I only had 500 lbs of tongue weight, I would be in the ditch right away. As far as using a truck scale to get your weights, you would have to weigh every axle with TT and then unhook the TT and get the axle weights off of the expi to figure out what your tongue weight is. Good luck!
 
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PatW

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Thanks, DF5.4 and DevonD. We really appreciate your comments. We're going to check on things you mentioned.

About the suspension - our Lance TT brochure says it has "premium, heavy-duty, rubber torsion-bar suspension axles with EZ-lube wheel bearings."

We're going to check the ball height when we drive to the factory. Good thought.

For the tongue weight, with our new Trailer Tongue Weight Scale, during our upcoming trip to the TT factory I plan to have them help us learn how to use it. We will certainly pay close attention to tongue weight from now on. And we'll be watching for squat.

It's really encouraging to know that others can tow so successfully with Expys! We hope to do the same!

What hitch setup do you use?
Do you use a weight distribution system? If so, what weight, brand?
Do you use a sway bar?
 

DF5.4

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I'm using the Reese Dual Cam HP WD setup. It's the weight distribution and sway control together.
 

hautevue

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TT and TV weights and hitch weight

The fact that the TT whips is almost certainly a too-light hitch load. As others noted, you need around 500- 600 pounds on the hitch ball or approx 10% - 15% of the total weight of the trailer.

And the fact that you have to use extraordinary methods to force the Expy (the TV) down to unhitch the trailer says that the trailer is too light on the hitch. The Expy is holding the hitch up in the air, so you have to jump on the bumper, etc., to drive the Expy downward to get it loose. IMHO that's a clear sign that the hitch load is too light on the Expy. To unhitch, one normally has to raise the TT tow socket off the hitch ball.

I recommend a trip (gently!!) to the local professional travel scales. Call ahead and tell them that you need several weights, and when should you come over to use the scales for ~15 minutes? They'll usually be very cooperative. Bring some wood blocks so you can support the TT level when unhitched.

When you get there, measure the total weight of the Expy and TT hooked up. Then unhook the TT, drive the Expy off the scales, and weigh again. That gives you the TT weight. Weigh your Expy alone. Then park the TT with the wheels NOT on the scales, and use the wood blocks to get the TT tongue reasonably level. Now weigh the TT--the weight will be the weight the TT puts on your hitch.

Now you have the data and can know what the problem is. My guess: not enough weight on the hitch.

I'm towing a 29' long Keystone Outback that weighs about 7200 pounds, with my '08 Expy EL. I use a Husky WDH and one sway bar. The rig is solid as a rock when that tractor trailer blows my doors off going 75 or 80. Your Expy and your TT seem to be well within the limits of what the Expy can handle, but check out that actual hitch weight.

Good luck!
 
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