2018 42K Miles 3rd set of Phasers

[flying68]

You lost me about halfway through...

I've had them replaced 2 times already potentially going back for a third after 3 weeks of having the second ones done. I think what you are trying to say is if the phasers are on the high or low side of the tolerances the internal block passage variance will always cause them to break.

They are operated by oil flow, at least they did on the 5.4l v8's. I have read that one of the fixes was to have higher flow / higher pressure oil pumps. There are videos online that describe how they work. The cold start rattle was caused by the nylon? locking pin breaking causing the phasers to rattle until oil pressure built up, then they would act normally. I would assume the design hasn't changed much since then.

From an engineering perspective you could have a bad phaser which would be fixed by replacing it, but if multiple phasers fail it would seem likely it is a block issue. I have no specific knowledge about it, just making an educated guess.

 

[freitz]

They are operated by oil flow, at least they did on the 5.4l v8's. I have read that one of the fixes was to have higher flow / higher pressure oil pumps. There are videos online that describe how they work. The cold start rattle was caused by the nylon? locking pin breaking causing the phasers to rattle until oil pressure built up, then they would act normally. I would assume the design hasn't changed much since then.

From an engineering perspective you could have a bad phaser which would be fixed by replacing it, but if multiple phasers fail it would seem likely it is a block issue. I have no specific knowledge about it, just making an educated guess.

Thanks for explaining further - That makes sense.

Anyone give GM Tahoe or Yukon a go? I've been a ford guy for a long time but looking to trade this vehicle in at this point.

Started reading up on the Sequoia, turned off by the Rusty frame issues.

 

[freitz]

It seems that right now all Ford is admitting to is 2018-april 2019 cam phaser issues.

Thought about rolling the dice again on a 2020 model but definitely don't want to be sitting here again in another 40k miles.

 

[MxRacer965]

yeah, and I'm not a fan of the engines/tranny's in this or even some of the Nissan/Infinity's for example. They need to modernize the 5.7 and 5.6, heck, I wish Nissan/Infinity would do a Cummins TD in say the QX80. that's a nice modern interior and their service is pretty awesome, always have loaners, essentially the Lincoln style care but you can get those sometimes for less than a Lincoln.

The engine and tranny were some or the primary reasons I went with this rig, and now I'm worried! I swear I researched these things a ton and never saw a ton of negative marks, most of the major magazines and sites gave it pretty good reviews. Maybe it was so new the issues weren't cropping up.

Infiniti is junk nowadays. We had a M45x Premium and loved it. Transmission went at 140K and we scrapped the car. It wasn’t worth fixing. It wasn’t even 10 years old, and MSRP was $70K. The QX80 uses the same transmission. I guess they are a unique design that makes rebuilds a bit more specialized. It was a phenomenal car when it was running. Infiniti service in Chicago area at Fields was bonkers good. Grand Rapids, MI Infiniti sucked. Damaged the dash during a recall repair of the airbags. We ******* until they replaced the entire dash. Cost $3,500 and took them weeks. At first they gave us a loaner, then as time wore on they asked for it back. Then when we got the car back the dash suddenly lit up light a Christmas tree and the gauges stopped working. They paid to flat bed to back across town, where they disassembled again and plugged connectors in better.

The QX80 is an ancient design in itself, with poor 3rd row space and luggage space behind the 3rd row. We were all dead set on a QX80 until the M45x trans went, and saw how horrible the space was in the QX. It really is an inferior vehicle to the Expedition.

 

[Carl Keef Jr]

Ford Quick Tips #74: 5.4L 3v Phaser Oscillation and Knocking Noise Explained

 

[freitz]

Ford Quick Tips #74: 5.4L 3v Phaser Oscillation and Knocking Noise Explained

So 5W30...

and its the EPA's fault

I've had all those parts replaced twice already. Issue is still coming back so its clearly the pump and the oil based on that video. Honestly shouldn't have to bother with it.

 

[MxRacer965]

Interesting. Is 5W30 specified elsewhere for the 3.5EB?

 

[freitz]

Interesting. Is 5W30 specified elsewhere for the 3.5EB?

I've seen many members talk about it.

 

[C Trost]

Does anyone have a short video or sound clip of this phaser noise/rattle. Does it occur on 2010 3 valve 5.4L ?

 

[freitz]

Does anyone have a short video or sound clip of this phaser noise/rattle. Does it occur on 2010 3 valve 5.4L ?

Short answers yes but most of us here are on the 3.5L

 

[no MORE_MPG]

Does anyone have a short video or sound clip of this phaser noise/rattle. Does it occur on 2010 3 valve 5.4L ?

The video link provided by Carl does have V8 phaser sounds.

Thanks Carl!

5W30 next time (Now I need to dig into whether to use full synthetic. I'm sure I'll find plenty to read on that, love these forums! Heading back to the 3rd Gen section now...).

 

[kjf1]

Try unplugging the oil VDOP sensor switch on the front engine cover near crankshaft damper to see if VCT noise gets less or goes away.

 

[Grey ghost]

I'm not sure it's any more than an annoyance. Certain engines have always had different sounds that were normal but bothered people that didn't know better. Like full floating wrist pins and solid lifters. Mine makes a little racket when started but quickly goes away.

 

[jwas1]

So I am on my third set of phasers. I've had my car back from the dealer for 3 weeks and I'm getting the cold start rattle again?

Am I the only one?

My previous Expedition Trton V8 had clicking due to phasers. Dealer suggested using Ford synthetic oil. Clicking disappeared and did not recur for the additional five years i owned the vehicle. Now have a 2018 with 42,000 miles. No phaser issues so far.

 

[freitz]

Here is a quick clip of start up.


do you think this has an issue or sounds normal?

 

[DWs-TTEB]

Here is a quick clip of start up.


do you think this has an issue or sounds normal?

Sounds normal.

 

[JExpedition07]

I have talked to a Ford technician about the phasers and he said it’s the exact same problem between the 3-valve Triton V8 engines and the DOHC engines like the EcoBoost. They only differ in what causes the problem to occur. For both it is wear or breakage of the locking pin in the sprocket mechanism. On the 5.4 the primary cause is low oil pressure to the phaser (which is caused by chain tensioner gasket blowouts). I opened up my 5.4 3V and did the timing chain tensioners, guides, and put in a brand new Ford 3V oil pump this April during quarantine. I had the startup rattle but no phaser knocking yet, and I didn’t want to play with fire later on. On the 5.4 this wear on the pin is a warning to address because this low pressure will slowly lead to further damage in the heads. You want to get your stock level oil pressure back. I don’t know how the EcoBoost is setup but I believe the phasers are NOT oil pressure driven like the 5.4 so the damage is occurring for some other reason. Hopefully not as crucial. Here was my startup rattle, this little gasket bleeds off pressure and relaxes the chains. And the new “heart”. I like the analogy of a heart for the oil pump, since it pumps the oil and keeps your engine alive lol.

 

[Bmanxx13]

We had the warranty work done on our '18 about 10k miles ago. It's been fine so far (knock on wood). Currently at 47k miles.

 

[freitz]

Sounds normal.

yeah that wasn’t a completely cold start. Will do a cold start tomorrow morning.

 

[mhExped]

Just adding a "me too" to the cam phaser issue. I was lucky enough to capture it in cell phone audio so I could play for the local service tech's. Parts on (back)order, will take it back in when they arrive. Crossing my fingers this is a one-and-done issue for me, as opposed to the OP's experience. :-/