No crank/no start after oil pressure light

[Yidakimason]

Hey folks… Here’s a bit of backstory:

My 2012 Expedition EL Limited was overdue for oil change, leaks enough that I’ve been topping up though. I’ve suspected the VVT solenoids for some time now and planned to do them next week when my family is away. If oul gets low, these act up and I get the stalling at low rpms.

On my drive home yesterday, cruising at hey speed, my oil pressure light goes on and my guage drops away. Then light off/pressure back. This cycled several times, and I could feel/hear no difference in performance, so I decided to keep driving as I was two minutes away from home. The engine died and would not restart.

I let it cool down, and there is a no crank/no start situation. Just the loud ticking, as my battery seems fine.

Is this likely a seized motor?.. It didn’t sound any different, so I assumed the oil pressure sensor crapped out, but oil level was actually good ( checked right away).

Now I am trying to diagnose, but without any cranking. Seems to me that it must be related to old dirty oil, sensor crapping out… Bad VVT’s.. I just hope that something didn’t get blocked and oil was not circulating somewhere.

Thanks for any advice.

My first step is to replace oil pressure sensor, drain and change oil tomorrow.

Thanks

 

[bman440440]

Are you sure there is still oil in it? How low was the oil level when you got home?

 

[Yidakimason]

If anything, it was overfull. Dipstick showed top of hashmarks. Under oil cap, oil looked milky though

 

[twodollars]

Maybe see if you can wrench the engine over from the crank bolt. By milky oil are you saying it appears to have coolant whipped in it? Could drain the pan, let it sit and see if you have any separation.

 

[Yidakimason]

I’ve had the milky/yellow frothy oil in the cap for awhile now.. Coolant never is low, so I don’t think its coolant. Seems to happen if I let the oil get low.

 

[twodollars]

If it's just in the cap I wouldn't worry. Natural spot for some condensation to collect.

 

[Yidakimason]

So I just went out and tried to crank the motor and there is zero budge.. I don’t know how worth it it is to take all the spark plugs/coils out and pour oil into pistons..

I had thought it must be a faulty oil pressure sensor because of its cycling on/off and no change in engine performance/sound. I just assumed a motor seizing would have a noticable sound/feel to it!

 

[GlennSullivan]

So I just went out and tried to crank the motor and there is zero budge.. I don’t know how worth it it is to take all the spark plugs/coils out and pour oil into pistons..

I had thought it must be a faulty oil pressure sensor because of its cycling on/off and no change in engine performance/sound. I just assumed a motor seizing would have a noticable sound/feel to it!

If you lost oil pressure while driving, putting oil in the cylinders at this point will be of no help as the main and rod bearings will seize first which may be what is keeping the engine from turning.

If there was still oil pressure and the engine is locked up, then there may be a rocker failure and / or dropped valve.

If you have a 1/2" breaker bar and a socket that fits the bolt on the front crankshaft pulley, then put the truck in park, disconnect the battery and attempt to turn the crank pulley clockwise with the breaker bar.

If it moves relatively easily then the motor is prolly not seized. If it won't move, or is super difficult, then either seized or other internal failure.

At that point, you could pull the rocker / cam covers to start diagnosing.

 

[Yidakimason]

Thanks.. It is rick solid, will not move a millimeter…

So I think it is safe to assume it is seized.

At this point, even if I go deeper in to diagnose, it’s likely way beyond my skill/tool set to deal with properly.

I should probably start thinking about new motor…

 

[Yidakimason]

I can tackle removing valve covers. What would be the obvious clues to look for at that stage?..

 

[GlennSullivan]

Sorry to hear that. There are a few different posts on here about engine swap options. Sounds like you would not do the swap yourself, so first step is get with a good shop that can (and has done) this work. Then figure out what the costs are. I would go with a completely rebuilt long block as opposed to a short block or used engine.

 

[GlennSullivan]

5.4 3 valve engines have issues with the roller followers that sit between the overhead cams and the valves. The cams push down on these followers, which, in turn, push down on the valves to open and close them. Access to these and other valve train components is by removing the valve covers.

The followers are known to fail, taking other valvetrain components with then and in worst case scenarios dropping a valve and ruining the engine.

Here is link to a video that will explain the above showing images of all components.

The One Fatal Flaw that is Destroying the Ford 5.4L 3v Triton Engines!

In this video we try to remind all Ford F-150 & Expedition 5.4L 3v Triton owners to listen to the warning sounds coming from your engine!These are the Parts ...

www.youtube.com

Based on your reported issues, I'm leaning toward the engine bearings being seized from lack of oil, but since the vehicle is not usable, no harm in pulling the valve covers to look things over to see anything out of norm.

If you have a relationship with a good shop(s) or even a Ford dealership, I would start a conversation with them (multiple sources if you have them) about a replacement long block. I've linked some threads below from this Forum regarding the process.

One word of caution, please do not put yourself in a situation where you are buying the engine from one company and paying another to install it, leaving yourself in the middle if something goes wrong, with both vendors pointing fingers and blaming each other and you in the middle without a functioning vehicle. Deal with one company and get an ironclad guarantee for a year or more that they will fix anything that is not right with the install at N/C to you.

The other important thing is before you dump a pile of money into this, is take stock of your entire vehicle as it presently exists. Besides the engine, is everything else in good shape and working order? Did it have other issues before this happened? Is the body and frame in good shape?

What you don't want to do is spend $$$$$ putting a new long block in the vehicle and then have the trans fail or frame crack 3 months later. Also consider what is the vehicle worth when back to good running condition and does it make sense to put this money in it or just buy a different vehicle. If this is a primary vehicle, also factor in the cost of a rental while this is out of service.

Reman Engine Resources

I'm starting this thread for all of us confronting the dilemma - timing job, engine replacement or get rid of the truck. I’ve seen lots of comments regarding reman suppliers (and opinions about them) but not a consolidated thread. I hope this information helps anyone else facing this...

www.expeditionforum.com

Suggested Engine Replacements Sources (2012 2WD Limited)

I recently purchased a 2012 2WD Limited (195K) for $1500. Bought it for parts for my older 2008 4x4 SSV, but once I got it home I started considering an engine replacement for the 2012 and selling the 2008. I've had suggestions of getting a Jasper rebuilt motor (probably $10-12 installed)...

www.expeditionforum.com

 

[Yidakimason]

Wow, thanks for your great advice.

This is my primary vehicle, so I need to replace/repair fairly quickly. Luckily, I have a small car to zip around, and will borrow a truck for work.

It is a 2012 in good overall shape. I was having air suspension issues, but it has new compressor. With 260,000 kms on it, resale won’t be that great. Compared to finding another comparable vehicle in this market, that may end up with the same issues… It’s going to be a very tough choice.

 

[GlennSullivan]

Wow, thanks for your great advice.

This is my primary vehicle, so I need to replace/repair fairly quickly. Luckily, I have a small car to zip around, and will borrow a truck for work.

It is a 2012 in good overall shape. I was having air suspension issues, but it has new compressor. With 260,000 kms on it, resale won’t be that great. Compared to finding another comparable vehicle in this market, that may end up with the same issues… It’s going to be a very tough choice.

You being north, I would have a serious look underneath at all frame and suspension components. We have a 2007 Tahoe with only 81,000 miles, it was our primary winter vehicle in the northeast for 10 years (now a secondary vehicle). Take a look at some of the salt / liquid calcium chloride damage this vehicle had. Carefully evaluate the rest of your vehicle before dumping a lot of money into it. This cost me quite a bit to fix this past summer.

 

[Bruce Mitchell]

I had a similar condition with my '99 EB 5.4L. Bad oil pump; engine seized. (I dropped a reman in her.)

 

[GaryH]

Over full oil, milky oil. Both signs of coolant in the crankcase.

 

[phenre]

I have the same condition, good crank no start or starts for a second and dies. Previously my Melling oil pump failed and the oil pickup tube was clogged. But after reinstalling the OEM oil pump I had good oil pressure, but the same crank no start condition. This is why I suspected something like the PCM needing a reflash. Fuel pressure at the rail is good. Ford dealer said timing was off, so I will dive back in and report results. There is a Check Engine light from the start, but no DTCs.

 

[Logan97]

I have a 13 expedition that didn't want to start because of a low oil pressure issue after driving to the gas station, oil pressure switch needed replacing