Engine rattling and transmission

[RickDenverRealtor]

What else do I need to add to my description of problems to do a transmission rebuild and take care of common rear end problems while I am still under warranty for another 1k miles? This is what I can describe of what I experince... I received a new engine and turbos at 68k miles (oil change shop forgot to put in oil and seized engine while moving between bays) and new flex plate at 96k miles.
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2018 Ford Expedition 4x4 edition. The last time I was in, we had an incomplete fix (new flex plate did not stop the engine rattle). As you may recall, I still have the loud rattle upon every start that lasts up to 10 minutes - sounds like pennies in a tin can. I also am experiencing some slipping in shifting - noted multiple times around 6th gear, eco mode, under load (up hill) and not (flat), where the shift misses, engine revs, there is a clunk of some sort and then I am grateful the car still moves. I have also experienced this slipping (no power, rev, clunk) in 3rd gear (ish) around town. I am now at 99,008 miles and need to get this in before I hit 100k.

 

[bmpcamry09]

Find a new dealer. These are easy issues to diagnose and fix. The CDF drum bushing is probably your trans issue. There is a TSB for it. As far as your rattling is concerned, your description is pretty vague so I can’t point you in the right direction. Could be 1 million different things based on what you’re telling me. I’ve never seen flex plate issues on these though.

 

[Dice Roll]

From what your saying that sounds like the waste gates flapping during warmup, which is normal.

 

[SyndicateZ]

Its the waste gate linkage rattling. My expy sounds like a shyt box at startup and when accelerating down the street because of it . Also check the exhaust clamps

 

[RickDenverRealtor]

Thank you. For the transmission, they are saying they are going to "tune it" or "reprogram it" or something like that... they are going to plug in something and drive it for 50 miles. They said a rebuild not warranted as transmission is not "buzzing" and no metal in fluid (though that was recently flushed). I'll ask them to check waste gate linkage.

 

[SyndicateZ]

Thank you. For the transmission, they are saying they are going to "tune it" or "reprogram it" or something like that... they are going to plug in something and drive it for 50 miles. They said a rebuild not warranted as transmission is not "buzzing" and no metal in fluid (though that was recently flushed). I'll ask them to check waste gate linkage.

Regarding the wastegate noise, there is no fix for it and its normal wastegate noise which is what my dealer said

 

[RickDenverRealtor]

Regarding the wastegate noise, there is no fix for it and its normal wastegate noise which is what my dealer said

Well that would surely stink... sounds awful - I'm embarrassed to turn on my car in front of clients, and it wasn't always there. Hoping they find something different.

 

[RickDenverRealtor]

Because I don't know what a wastegate is, I asked chatgpt.
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To address the wastegate rattle issue in a 2018 Ford Expedition, it's essential to understand the cause and then explore the available fixes. The wastegate in a turbocharged engine helps regulate the engine's boost pressure by redirecting exhaust flow away from the turbocharger's turbine, controlling its speed. A rattle from this area can indicate a mechanical issue, which could range from a loose component to more complex turbocharger system problems.

Here are steps and considerations for addressing the issue:

1. **Diagnosis**: The first step is to accurately diagnose the source of the rattle. This can be done using diagnostic tools and techniques specific to turbocharged engines. A mechanic might perform a visual inspection, check for loose components, and use a diagnostic scanner to check for any error codes related to the turbocharger system.

2. **Tighten or Replace Loose Components**: If the rattle is due to loose hardware or connections around the wastegate or turbocharger, tightening or replacing these components may resolve the issue.

3. **Wastegate Actuator Adjustment**: If the actuator that controls the wastegate is improperly adjusted, it can lead to rattling noises. Adjusting the actuator to ensure it opens and closes the wastegate flap correctly may fix the issue.

4. **Wastegate Flap Wear**: Over time, the wastegate flap and seat can wear out, leading to a poor seal and rattling noise. If this is the case, replacing the wastegate or the entire turbocharger may be necessary.

5. **Aftermarket Solutions**: There are aftermarket solutions available, including upgraded wastegate actuators or brackets designed to reduce or eliminate rattle. These components are often more robust than the OEM parts and can offer a more permanent fix.

6. **Check for Technical Service Bulletins (TSBs)**: It’s wise to check if Ford has issued any Technical Service Bulletins (TSBs) or recalls related to the wastegate or turbocharger system for the 2018 Expedition. Manufacturers often release TSBs to inform dealerships and service centers about known issues and recommended fixes.

7. **Professional Help**: Given the complexity of turbocharged systems, it’s recommended to seek help from a professional mechanic or a dealership service center, especially one that specializes in Ford vehicles. They can offer a more detailed diagnosis and have access to specific parts and tools required for the repair.

Remember, addressing the wastegate rattle promptly is important not only for noise reduction but also to ensure the long-term health of your vehicle’s engine and turbocharger system. Ignoring the issue can lead to decreased performance and possibly more significant engine damage.

 

[RickDenverRealtor]

The dealer did a "relearn" of the transmission and say it's "fixed". They agree that the rattle is likely the wastegate. They are saying "normal" and "within normal operation". SO frustrating as it is so loud and lasts so long. This noise didn't use to be there, and the turbos only have 30k miles on them (new engine and turbos at 68k miles). Are others experiencing this? Any OEM fixes? Other ideas?

I want to drive my Expedition for another 100k miles... but can't stand this rattle.


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ChatGPT offers: Adjusting the electronic wastegate actuator on a 2018 Ford Expedition involves interfacing with the vehicle’s electronic control unit (ECU) to modify its operating parameters or to diagnose and rectify any issues causing malfunction, such as a rattle. This process generally requires specialized diagnostic tools and software, which can communicate with the vehicle’s onboard computer systems. Here’s an overview of the steps involved, bearing in mind that specific procedures can vary depending on the diagnostic equipment used and the exact nature of the problem.

### Preliminary Steps
1. **Safety First**: Ensure the vehicle is parked on a level surface, the engine is turned off, and the key is in the off position.
2. **Equipment Preparation**: Connect a compatible diagnostic tool to the vehicle's OBD-II port, usually located under the dashboard.

### Diagnostic Software Use
3. **Vehicle Identification**: Enter the necessary vehicle information into the diagnostic tool, such as the make, model, and year—2018 Ford Expedition in this case.
4. **Accessing the Turbocharger System**: Navigate through the diagnostic tool’s menu to select the turbocharger or wastegate actuator settings. This might be under engine performance, turbocharger control, or a similar section.
5. **Fault Codes**: Before making adjustments, check for any stored fault codes that might indicate issues with the wastegate actuator or related components. Clearing these codes without addressing the underlying problems can lead to recurrent issues.

### Adjusting the Actuator
6. **Adjustment Settings**: If the tool provides options for adjusting the wastegate actuator, such adjustments might involve changing the parameters that control the actuator's position at various engine speeds and loads. This is a delicate process; incorrect adjustments can negatively impact performance, fuel efficiency, and emissions.
7. **Testing**: After making adjustments, it’s crucial to test the vehicle to ensure that the changes have had the desired effect and have not introduced any new issues.

### Calibration (If Needed)
8. **Actuator Calibration**: Some vehicles may require the wastegate actuator to be recalibrated after adjustments. This process ensures that the actuator's operation is synchronized with the turbocharger and engine requirements.
9. **Final Testing**: Perform a comprehensive test, including a road test, to verify that the wastegate rattle is resolved and the vehicle performs as expected across a range of conditions.

### Professional Assistance
Due to the complexity and precision required in adjusting electronic wastegate actuators, it is strongly recommended to have these adjustments carried out by professionals at a dealership or an automotive repair shop specializing in turbocharged vehicles or Ford models. They will have the most up-to-date software, tools, and training to ensure the adjustments are made correctly and safely.

Attempting to adjust the electronic wastegate actuator without proper knowledge and tools can result in incorrect settings that may lead to poor performance, increased emissions, or even damage to the turbocharger and engine.

 

[SyndicateZ]

My wastegate rattle is loud at start from both driver & passenger side for a minute or so at cold starts especially. Makes me never want to buy another turbo vehicle again no matter the make

 

[Ugh_J]

Regarding the wastegate noise, there is no fix for it and its normal wastegate noise which is what my dealer said

They might have said there's no fix as there is no official Ford fix for it. There does appear to be a workaround/fix to stop the rattle if it is indeed the turbo waste gate. See https://www.f150forum.com/f118/3-5-wastegate-rattle-fixed-507919/ for details. I haven't done this on mine as the rattle quiets down about time the engine idle drops after start, so it's not a big deal for me.

 

[SyndicateZ]

sx

 

[bityw]

They might have said there's no fix as there is no official Ford fix for it. There does appear to be a workaround/fix to stop the rattle if it is indeed the turbo waste gate. See https://www.f150forum.com/f118/3-5-wastegate-rattle-fixed-507919/ for details. I haven't done this on mine as the rattle quiets down about time the engine idle drops after start, so it's not a big deal for me.

Just for OP’s info…

I did this fix a year ago. Works great. No rattle. No adverse effects. Took 1 minute to do while under there to change oil.

 

[VBreithaupt]

They need to do the TSB for slipping. Mine only got worse and started falling out of gear more often. It can be dangerous tell them. Mine slipped out on the highway passing someone and left me to coast with traffic around me until I could get back over to the right lanes. They replaced CDF drum bushing and it has fixed the issue. Waste gate rattle at cold start up they still haven't touched. They keep saying its within normal range BS. I do think the spring installed on linkage helps as suggested in forum.

 

[19ExpMaxPlatYYC]

Not seeing anybody mention the cam phaser issue, have you considered that as the source of the start-up noise? There is a TSB on it, I cannot imagine how doing this work could be avoided.

Re the transmission, read the TSB, share the symptoms as described in the TSB that are relevant.

Personally I have had the cam phaser replaced and had some work on transmission (shift solenoid if I recall). That didn't resolve transmission issues, an enormous pounding clunk while towing didn't take it down but when I returned the dealer concluded a full rebuild is necessary. It is my understanding that new parts were made available ahead of the TSB.

I purchased extended warranty because these issues don't look that easy to resolve. Failing success with a dealer, I'd suggest that. You're going to end up rebuilding that transmission one way or the other.

 

[Craig Payne]

I've shared a few of my repairs in other threads as I've had a lot, but I'll throw in my 2 cents here because I've experienced both of these issues. Of note, my vehicle is currently in the shop for this right now so I can't comment yet on how effective these most recent fixes are.

Rattling:
- I have had rattling for a long time in my Expedition. I've taken it in 2 times for the rattling over the past couple of years and they have found each time that it is beyond what should be expected for the engine. They have replaced different parts including and related to the cam phasers each time, though never done anything with the turbo relating to rattle. That said, this time they really wanted to ensure they had it nailed down before doing cam phaser work and so after a significant amount of diagnostics, discovered the starter was rattling and are replacing it. I'm hopeful this was why the other fixes didn't work.
- The big thing to note here is that there could be a lot of things rattling and unfortunately, sometimes, it means fixing what you think it is and driving it for a few weeks to see if that truly was all of the issue, some of the issue, or not the issue at all.

Transmission:
- I've had hard shifting and poor transmission performance for a while, but the dealership has been great about moving me through the process. My advice though, is be willing to engage with the process. The TSB has like 3 or 4 steps and each one really needs significant testing afterwards by the owner to confirm whether or not it worked. Part of this is due to the re-learning process, and from what I read of the TSB, the technicians are specifically instructed to tell the owner after service that it will shift oddly for a little while post service. It stinks but it's because not all transmission issues are the CDF drum, which is the last step of the TSB. I believe it starts with a reprogram, moves to replacing a few other items, valves and a pump maybe? Then ends with the rebuild for the CDF drum depending on the age of the vehicle, (transmissions before some time in 2022 I think).
- One additional thing to note here is that it could be multiple issues at once. When they did the step that involved the valves on my Expedition, it seemed like it fixed the issue at first but then the issue came back, which allowed them to move to the next step of the process. All of that said, my service person laid all of this out for me from the TSB the very first time I brought it in for the transmission so I knew exactly what to expect as we moved through each step of the process.

I know this last part isn't super helpful in a situation where the warranty is running out in 1,000 miles, but my best advice for others here is don't wait if you notice an issue. Some of these TSB's take time and the earlier you engage with the service process for it, the more options and flexibility there is for the vehicle to hopefully end up on the right side of a full odometer.

 

[Ugh_J]

Not seeing anybody mention the cam phaser issue, have you considered that as the source of the start-up noise? There is a TSB on it, I cannot imagine how doing this work could be avoided.

Well, I think I'd rather go spend $7 on a couple springs, do that fix, and see if all the noise goes away. If it does, it's probably not the cam phasers. As diagnostic fees go, $7 is about as cheap as it gets.

 

[RickDenverRealtor]

RESOLUTION: It was my starter. Another shop had told me this, Ford refused to listen. They finally replaced the starter. Problem solved.

NOW: I get a kind of "whoosh" airy sound all the time that wasn't there before from my engine area. Consistent sound - does not go up or down, just present or not present. Thoughts?

 

[RickDenverRealtor]

I've shared a few of my repairs in other threads as I've had a lot, but I'll throw in my 2 cents here because I've experienced both of these issues. Of note, my vehicle is currently in the shop for this right now so I can't comment yet on how effective these most recent fixes are.

Rattling:
- I have had rattling for a long time in my Expedition. I've taken it in 2 times for the rattling over the past couple of years and they have found each time that it is beyond what should be expected for the engine. They have replaced different parts including and related to the cam phasers each time, though never done anything with the turbo relating to rattle. That said, this time they really wanted to ensure they had it nailed down before doing cam phaser work and so after a significant amount of diagnostics, discovered the starter was rattling and are replacing it. I'm hopeful this was why the other fixes didn't work.
- The big thing to note here is that there could be a lot of things rattling and unfortunately, sometimes, it means fixing what you think it is and driving it for a few weeks to see if that truly was all of the issue, some of the issue, or not the issue at all.

Transmission:
- I've had hard shifting and poor transmission performance for a while, but the dealership has been great about moving me through the process. My advice though, is be willing to engage with the process. The TSB has like 3 or 4 steps and each one really needs significant testing afterwards by the owner to confirm whether or not it worked. Part of this is due to the re-learning process, and from what I read of the TSB, the technicians are specifically instructed to tell the owner after service that it will shift oddly for a little while post service. It stinks but it's because not all transmission issues are the CDF drum, which is the last step of the TSB. I believe it starts with a reprogram, moves to replacing a few other items, valves and a pump maybe? Then ends with the rebuild for the CDF drum depending on the age of the vehicle, (transmissions before some time in 2022 I think).
- One additional thing to note here is that it could be multiple issues at once. When they did the step that involved the valves on my Expedition, it seemed like it fixed the issue at first but then the issue came back, which allowed them to move to the next step of the process. All of that said, my service person laid all of this out for me from the TSB the very first time I brought it in for the transmission so I knew exactly what to expect as we moved through each step of the process.

I know this last part isn't super helpful in a situation where the warranty is running out in 1,000 miles, but my best advice for others here is don't wait if you notice an issue. Some of these TSB's take time and the earlier you engage with the service process for it, the more options and flexibility there is for the vehicle to hopefully end up on the right side of a full odometer.

Thank you for a thoughtful reply.