04 Expedition Not starting, electrical/fuse/pats issue

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Hard2Hear

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Hello everyone. I should have posted this a week ago.

I am having issues with my truck and I really need a hand. Its usually my wife's daily driver to tote around her and our baby. 3 or 4 times in the past year it has decided it would not start. What it would do is crank and hesitate like its not getting fuel. It would sometimes start and barely run very poorly, like old carborated cars sometimes would chug and putter a few times after you turned them off. The solution each time would be to disconnect the battery for 30+ minutes and it would eventually start again, running very poorly while the engine seemed to re-work its tune out. I read around the internet and deduced it was possibly an issue with the PATS system, as the hard reset seemed to fix it.

Fast Forward to last week. My wife was out and it would not start for her. I drove to the animal shelter where she and our baby were stuck in 95+ degree heat. I tried and it slightly turned over like normal but would not run. I disconnected the battery and had them wait in the AC in my car for 30+ minutes. But this time it would not start at all. Clicks and no crank. So I had to have it towed home.

Next day I went out to look at it and it was just totally dead. Since the battery was original, I decided to start there and ran to Sears to get a new battery. Installed and it cranked fast but still acted like it wasn't getting gas. I did some more reading on the net, found this forum and f150 and dug around. I started looking at fuses and found that fuse 09 was blown. I had never had to replace a fuse in this truck before during the previous issues. Easy enough. Replaced it, started up.

After a few start up tests something new happened (had the parking lights on during my testing). I put the key in, turned it to start and CLICK, DEAD. No crank, no lights, no dings, no power. Totally completely dead as if there were no battery installed. Stumped. But I decided to check out fuse 9 again, so I pulled it. Its fine, not blown. So I re-insert the fuse. Closed the passenger door back and the parking lights magically come back on when the door closes. Truck starts fine.

Since then I have driven the truck very little, but about every other time I go to start it, it goes dead (CLICK, DEAD), I re-seat fuse 9 and it starts. Last night it actually blew fuse 9 for a second time. But I replaced and it re-started.

2 Things I have in the works. A local shop is working on a tune to disable my PATS system. I hate it anyways, and will feel better with it out of the truck. Second, I have ordered a new Fusebox Assembly and am waiting on that to arrive. The truck has never quit on us while running, it seems to be only a startup issue.

Its a 2004 Expedition XLT 4X4 with 4.6 and auto transmission No water leaks I've ever found and no other electrical issues. Everything else works on the truck fine.

I'm not sure if the path which I'm going down will fix this truck. I need to get it to be 100% reliable for us. I do not trust it for my wife and daughter to be safe while in it.

Any help is GREATLY appreciated. Thanks!
 
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yammerslammer

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Something is causing that fuse to blow. It could be a bad fuse box, but it seems more like a short. Have you traced out the wires?
 
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Hard2Hear

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I have not. I kind of figured if I was going to undertake that big of a task, I'd just go ahead and replace the box while I was in there with everything taken apart.
 

ELVATO

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Maybe check all the wiring leading to the fuel pump? Seems something is wrong there, especially since you say it sometimes sounds starved for fuel and that the 09 fuse is for the fuel pump. Might have to actually drop the tank and have a look inside...
 

ghettoracer

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Just curious...did you check the Relay 3 for the fuel pump? If that relay is blown more than likely that will cause fuse 09 to blow, that is the relay for the fuel pump.
 

ELVATO

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Don't think it's serviceable in the 03-06s. Which, in the end, doesn't matter since he's getting a new fuse box. Hopefully that does end up fixing it.
 

cdherman

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I too do not understand just why the fuse box should be replaced. Seems like its an issue with the fuel pump or the relay.
 

ghettoracer

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I thought the relay is on the passenger side fuse box with the 6 larger relays on it? If that doesn't do it, hit the fuel pump reset button. I think changing out the fuse box is a bigger PITA then checking to see if its a blown relay IMO.
 
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Hard2Hear

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Absolutely it would be. I've checked the relays and they seem to be ok**. There are several non-replacable fuses on the back of the fuse box which require the entire box be replaced. The fuel reset switch has never gone off, I've checked a few times and its never been in a reset state. It is a very odd issue, that's why I just haven't been able to nail it down. I do have some wiring I'm going to suss out and check as well.

One thing I didn't mention was that when it hard quit and I had it towed, I knocked around on the steering column (ok, I was PO'd and I hit it hard) where the PATS sensor is located (because Ive suspected that for some time) and that did change the condition from no start to just dead. So I'm not completely blindly guessing at things. I'm not just confident where the actual source it.

Thanks everyone for the help! I'll keep things updated as I work through this. I'll avoid a trip to the dealer shop as long as I can.



** By the way. I'm missing relay 2 from my fuse box. Its just not there. Is this relay optional? There doesn't seem to be anything that is not working as a result.
 
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Racenut

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Absolutely it would be. I've checked the relays and they seem to be ok**. There are several non-replacable fuses on the back of the fuse box which require the entire box be replaced. The fuel reset switch has never gone off, I've checked a few times and its never been in a reset state. It is a very odd issue, that's why I just haven't been able to nail it down. I do have some wiring I'm going to suss out and check as well.

One thing I didn't mention was that when it hard quit and I had it towed, I knocked around on the steering column (ok, I was PO'd and I hit it hard) where the PATS sensor is located (because Ive suspected that for some time) and that did change the condition from no start to just dead. So I'm not completely blindly guessing at things. I'm not just confident where the actual source it.
Thanks everyone for the help! I'll keep things updated as I work through this. I'll avoid a trip to the dealer shop as long as I can.



** By the way. I'm missing relay 2 from my fuse box. Its just not there. Is this relay optional? There doesn't seem to be anything that is not working as a result.

The PATS sensor would not cause the starter to go dead, the only thing that the PATS system will lock out is the fuel. If by hitting the colum or a good slam of the door will change the symptoms, you may have some loose wiring on the ignition switch or a short somewhere in the colum (which could cause your blown fuse).

To me it definatly sounds like loose wiring since you say that it will kill all power including the parking lights. Many sources in the vehicle have power at all times no matter what the key position, but the main power goes thru the ignition first then to non switchable sources then when key on all of the switchable sources as well. So if there is a problem with the ignition wiring it could cause all the other problems and be intermitent like what you where experiencing.

Now that you gave the colum a good ( can of whoop A$$ ) it could have completely disconected what ever conections where loose ( which could include the PATS connector which if that one was loose, that could be your fuel problem )

Something to look at that is really cheap as well, you may fix the problem without even needing the fuse block. So I would definatley tear apart the colum to at least look.
 
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Hard2Hear

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Thanks to you as well Racenut. So this morning when it wouldn't start, the re-seating fuse 9 didn't work (for the first time since I started that practice). So I took off the cover to the steering column and had a look at some wires. I didn't see anything blantantly worn or disconnected. The the wire block on the left side looked interesting, so I started feeling around on those wires. I pushed some of them in to the block further and a couple felt kind of loose to me, especially the solid yellow wire. Anyways, the truck started up very strongly right after I did that. Maybe I fell backwards into something. We'll see what it decides to do the rest of the day.
 

ELVATO

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The solid yellow seems to be the wire that powers the key removal solenoid. When you are in park, the circuit breaks, and it lets you take the key out. Don't think that one has to do with actually starting the truck.
 
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Hard2Hear

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Color me stumped.

This morning, I went to start it and it completely went black as usual. No lights, no dings, no guages. I opened the driver side door (interior lights didn't come on cause it was dead), then closed the door, then opened the door again (interior lights came back on), and the truck started.

I'm thinking of saying screw it and taking it to the dealer to let them sort it out. I'll just rent something for a few days. I think this truck is giong to make me lose my mind if I continue to search for this gremlin.
 

ELVATO

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Maybe a loose connection that "gets better" when you close/slam the door shut?
 
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Hard2Hear

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Resolved

So I replaced the fuse box yesterday morning and it has started like a champ for 2 days. Seems something in there must have gone bad. I'm hoping I don't have another PATS incident down the road as I have a strong feeling the PATS system blew up my fuse box.

Back to letting my wife drive the Expedition and getting to drive my new '11 Mustang GT! Thanks everyone for the input and ideas!

btw - a new fuse box cost me $182.77 from silver state ford parts. part # is 4L1Z14A068AB for reference of anyone who sees this in the future.
 
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