11 navigator stalling out

[69charged]

Hello all.
Looking to see if anyone can help me out with a little problem ive been having. i have a 2011 navigator that has been stalling at start up lately. when i go out to start it in the morning, it turns over, sometimes for a few seconds, then kinda starts, and stumbles a lot. when it does finally start, it blows out what looks like black smoke, and smells really rich. once this clears up, it runs fairly well. i say fairly well because it also hesitates as you accelerate. ive had 5.4's and v10's before, and it almost seems like a COP, but if i tramp on it hard, it goes away. only under light throttle does it do it. or in a heavy headwind.
i changed the plugs, and looked at the COP boots, and they LOOKED ok. but when it gets warmer, i intend to buy the accel coil packs. it seems like it is a leaky injector, or the computer is reading the wrong info to start? i should also mention that it seems REALLY hard on fuel compared to my previous 08 expy. with or without the programmer.

ive searched high and low for the same problem from someone else, and there was only one thread where the guy had the same problem, but was never answered. so i dont know. also was wondering if it could be something to do with the egr sticking? i do have it 5star tuned, but this problem was showing up before,along with a P130 and P150 code, for O2 sensors. i have just recently replaced all 4, and these codes no longer come up. but my problem is still there.

hope someone can help. its draining my wallet on fuel running around for hockey!!!
thanks all
clarence

 

[East-TN]

I see you state the problem was there before the tune, but recommend you return it to stock tune and clean the MAF...then see what you get.

 

[deweysmith]

Did you do an idle relearn after the O2 sensors?

 

[theoldwizard1]

Dirty aftermarket air cleaners are a common culprit. Also dirty MAF.

I don't recall if that model year has "throttle by wire" or not. If it does NOT, that is a classic description of a clogged idle air control solenoid. Remove and clean it.

 

[deweysmith]

It does, I think all the 3rd-gen are electronic throttle.

 

[69charged]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. It's pretty cold here right now so I will clean the MAF next week.
No I did not do the idle relearn. Have been working on vehicles for a long time and have never heard of this. Not that it's not a thing, just never heard of it.
Thanks and I'll let you guys know how it goes.
Clarence

 

[69charged]

What about data logging with the x3? Anybody done it, and what does it read to log?

 

[JollyRoger]

I'd say clean the MAF (5 minute job) first. Not sure how many miles you have on the vehicle but it could be the COPS. FYI, I've read that the Accel versions are junk. I've used the AC Delco ones that are made in Mexico...around $220 for the set and I've been happy with the longevity...about 65K on the current set and they are fine. Both my Expeditions needed new COPS at about 100K miles.

 

[69charged]

I currently have about 245000 Kms on it. I have no idea when they were changed, if ever. When I did the plugs not that long ago, the 2 rear ones looked like they had never been changed. I was confident that was the problem. But no go.

 

[69charged]

Well, I brought it in the garage and cleaned the MAF. No go. I don't have an aftermarket intake or anything. I also did the idle relearn procedure, and no go. I also have yet to return it to stock, so I will try that next.
Clarence

 

[JExpedition07]

When I killed a coil over it sputtered at idle and would seem fine if I stepped on it, so don’t rule that out. If it’s a leaky injector replace it ASAP it can cause major problems or grenade the motor all together. Do you have to hold the key and crank a lot to get it to start?

 

[69charged]

Yeah I hear ya. That happened to me on my v10 back when. Because fords have the one touch key, I turn it once and leave it crank till it goes. Which, sometimes is around 10 seconds. It smells like raw unburnt fuel after it starts.

 

[JExpedition07]

Start looking to your injectors in case. sounds awfully similar to what another user experienced before blowing the motor from starting flooded too many times. Still could be something electrical but be cautious.

 

[1955moose]

Are the 02 sensors the only codes that came up? You should be getting codes for suspect cylinder/cylinders that are leaking. I agree with other member, disconnect any computer tune chips or whatever. They can cause more driveability issues than you can imagine. I helped a young mechanic last week that was having a no start on his 93mustang gt. I gave him quite a few things to check. He reported back last week, his issue was the tuning chip on his computer shorted out, and took ecu with it. He popped in a new ecu sans chip, and dittala whoopah, fired right up. Do a fuel pressure test, run full dtc codes, and report back.

Sent from my N9131 using Tapatalk

 

[69charged]

I'll take the tune out this week when I get time.
The only codes ever have been for the O2 sensors. Since replacing all 4, nothing has come up again.
Clarence

 

[1955moose]

A lot of driveability issues on these vehicles don't trip a code, or the appropriate code. A leaky injector will cause all kinds of grief, especially on start up. Fuel building up on top of a piston, would be a tough job for that spark plug to fire, not to mention all the excess fuel making its way past your piston rings, washing away oil lubrication. Surprised your computer didn't throw a code for that bank, but then again we're putting the cart before the horse. When they or you diagnose fuel pressure/trim, and all diagnostic, your issue should pop up, always does, if done proper.

Sent from my N9131 using Tapatalk

 

[Adieu]

Somewhat similar issue

'12 Gator

No tune no codes

Popped up after changing a dying battery, dunno if related


Did you resolve your problem?

 

[coolzzy]

Have you removed fuse 27 under the hood in the fuse panel and inspected the socket? There is a tsb for the socket melting (fuel pump) and a relocation kit available for a few bucks. It's a 20 minute job on the F150, should be the same on the expy. It will cause a crank no start situation. And in the case of complete fuse socket failure, vehicle will shut off while driving with no warning.

 

[99WhiteC5Coupe]

Somewhat similar issue

'12 Gator

No tune no codes

Popped up after changing a dying battery, dunno if related


Did you resolve your problem?

http://www.expeditionforum.com/thre...om-no-oil-pressure-warning.35892/#post-304896