2003 Front brakes

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G

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At 11,000 miles of normal suburban Los Angeles driving, I had to have my front rotors replaced. The dealer said they were "cupped," and beyond machining. A co-worker with 3,000mi had to have one front rotor replaced.

Anybody else needing premature rotor replacement on their new Expys?
 

DAMN_FORD

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Oh, well that's great! Did the warranty cover this??
 
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G

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I have a 2000 Expy 4x2 .We LOVE it and have had no problems whatsoever except.... Well we bought it brand new the summer of 2000 and since then we have replaced our front rotors twice and rear rotors twice along with all the brake pads an equal number of times.. Most recently the rear rotors being replaced again just a month ago. Along with the brake pads. Our front brakes are makeing strange noises again and we are getting ready for a new pair of pads this summer. Hopefully rotors are good since they were just changed summer of 02'. I guess this was a common problem with the late model expeditions because a freind of mine also had the same issues on his 99'. He luckily had his existing warranty and the dealer replaced them without fuss. As for me our warranty ran out after only a year because of excessive traveling. Anyway , If the new Expys also have this problem I may have to rethink getting another at the end of my current lease . I really hope ford fixes this problem soon.
 
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G

Guest

I have a 03' Expedition. I bought it July 02'. It has about 28,000 miles ( trips to Texas, plus I work 50 miles away). I've taken it every time for the scheduled maintenance and have taken good care of it. But NOW I need my rotors replaced. The front two rotors are scratched into beyond normal with the brake pad still half way, they can still be fixed $$$. My rear rotors are completely messed up. The pads wore out faster then the fronts and the rotors are messed up beyond repair. So I need to replace the rotors and get new paddles for the rear. I noticed the problem early on because of the large about of brake dusk in the front rims. I took the car to the dealer because the wear didn’t seem normal to me. But they just told me the disk getting scratched is normal. I told tell yes but that the scratching was too much and the pad we still ¾. They said that it was because of the mileage and nothing was covered. So I took it to another Ford Dealer where they checked the brakes for any defects and they charged me for it. They ended up telling me that the wear was normal for Expeditions with that mileage. Now I need to get everything repaired which is $500+ because only Ford dealers sell the pads and the rotors. :mad:

So is this normal for all you people will 03’ Expeditions? Why are Ford brake parts so weak? I have friends with Tahoes and Suburbans and there pads don’t damage the disc so much and the rotors don’t need to be replaced so soon.


:troll:
 

Kistler

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I have questions.. :) do you guys have AdvanceTrac? Having lived in LA and the suburbs, I know that there is a lot of stop-and-go driving....

The BIG question is did you have to pay for these repairs?
 

Kistler

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Re reading here...you had to pay??? I think that is very wrong. There is probably not much you can do about it, but I would certainly write a letter of complaint or two.

Kistler
 

mm7759

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I didn't have any problems at all with my 2000 EB, but I did only have about 22k miles on it before turning it into a 2003 EB. So far (only 1300 miles), the only problem (brake wise) is the dust. Pulled our tent trailer for the 1st time with the 2003, and it seemed to brake a little better (smoother) than my 2000 did.
 
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G

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Brake Dust

I just bought an '03. I was shocked at the amount of brake dust on the wheels after 100 miles of driving. I stopped by the dealer and asked.
They said that the Expedition is known for this.
I just sold my '01 F150. I had to replace the rotors and pads at about 36K, but I had no where NEAR the amount of brake dust as this.
Ford says that pads and rotors are covered for the first 12 months, 12K miles. My response to them was, bumper to bumper doesn't really mean bumper to bumper?
Dealer says that wear/tear items are treated differently.
New rotors (aftermarket) aren't that expensive, I think I paid less than $100 apiece for my F150 rotors. I'd bet that they're the same rotors as the Expedition. Changing them was not hard either. I did pads and rotors in my garage, took about an hour.
 
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G

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My '99 Expy did make a lot of brake dust, but the new '03 seems to be about twice the amount....I hope my rotors don't warp/wear out like this!!!
 

Kistler

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Dirty rims--do you spray the wheels while they are hot? I was thinking about the warping of the rotors and happened to recall that when we went to the Expedition orientation at the dealer shortly after purchase, it was mentioned about the dust and to NOT get out the hose and spray the wheels--warping will result.

I don't use car washes but could it be that the car wash could cause rotor warping? When you drive in off the street and immediately go through the spray, it would be something like hosing off the rims.
 
OP
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G

Guest

What do we do in the rain? Or in Minnesota, the winter?
I was at the dealer today. I talked to the parts department, asked about ceramic brake pads. They said that Ford only has the standard motorcraft brake pads, and yes, they're known for putting out a lot of dust. I have never seen anything like this. Soon after, an '03 Explorer pulled in, and I saw the same problem. I'd seen it on every '03 Expedition, but had not looked at other Fords. Ford's brake pads are dusty. There are pads that don't do this, but Ford chose not to use them. Cheap ba$tards!
 
OP
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G

Guest

(Disclaimer: I'm more familiar with sports cars and just became a recent owner of a new Expedition, so I'm drawing on my sports car experience).

To my understanding, organic brake pads will dust A LOT. Switching to metallic brake pads lessens the problem, but there will always be some amount of brake dust. Some people have found good luck cleaning their wheels and then apply a coat of wax. I've done this on my sport car and found the dust washes off easier. Don't know if this can be applied to the Expedition wheels.

Since it sounds like people have been experiencing early brake rotor warpage, my only guess is that there is a lot of heat build up on the rotors causing the warpage.

This can happen on the track when you're racing around and working the brakes hard.

For those getting early warpage, are you

1. Towing often
2. Doing a lot of city driving where stop and go traffic is involved.

The Expedition is a hefty vehicle, so I imagine a lot of pressure from pad to rotor is needed. The problem is increased if you're towing a lot.

I doubt air flow is a problem with the vehicle because it sits high (vs a sports car that sits low), so air flow and cooling of the rotor shouldn't be that impeded, but I haven't had enough drive time with my own expedition to really know this.

The next is rotors. Are they vented or solid (Yes, I'm a new owner that hasn't even picked up his own vehicle yet so I couldn't even run down to the garage to check if I wanted to). Solid rotors cannot dissipate heat as quickly as vented rotors, so if you're cooking them, then solid rotors are pretty easy to warp.

If I end up warping the front and rear rotors, I'd probably replace them with vented front and rear rotors and maybe see if the Ford F-150 Lightning front rotors would work.

For sports cars, we usually cross drill rotors to help dissipate heat or slot rotors to help dissipate gases developed between the rotor and brake pad. That might be another avenue worth exploring.
 

NoDonut

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For Killer03.
We went in for routine service on our 03 EXPY after missing the last two services. Our EXPY has 19000 miles after 9 months of highway travel and in town use. After the service, Ford told me that I had 15% of front pad left. Ford wanted $345.00 to service and replace the front pads. I checked into the TSB and was advised that the replacement pads were not available until LATE in the 4th quarter and even if they had the replacement pads now, I was way past any warranty coverage for the front pads. Rather that pay the extremely high price Ford wanted to replace the front pads with the same pads that has been causing this dust controversy, I did some research and found a set of ceramic pads from ARI. Stillen also has a replacement pad that is supposed to minimize the dust problem on the 03 EXPY's. I went ahead and installed the ARI ceramic pads and have been practically dust free for over one week now. Stillen makes an aftermarket cross drilled rotor and I am sure that others have followed in providing an option for aftermarket rotors for the 03 EXPY's.
 

Taz

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I have to replace the front rotors, and I will do it myself with aftermarket vented rotors.I was wondering if anyone can knows where to find info on the procedure. I have done many on other vehicles, but was curious if there are any little issues, and what the torque specs are.
Thanks
 

Rfreels

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I put the cheap Napa rotors and ceramic pads on my '03 10k miles ago and love them. 95% less dust than Metalic.
 

Chesterfoxes

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Here's a write-up a did a while ago. Let us know how the vented rotors work out for you.

Paul



I did a 2004 front brakes this past summer - here's the write-up I did for it. I don't think they're too different, if at all, from your 2003.

This took 2-hours to do - 1.5 hours for the first side and about 20 minutes for the other. Learning takes time! For those who feel up to it, some tips to make it easier - you'll save about an hour looking for tools!

1. Pull the tire off.

2. Spray penetrating oil around each stud (where it penetrates the rotor) and also around where the rotor mates with the drive hub.

3. Use a c-clamp to push the caliper slides and pistons back enough to get the caliper off the rotor. Put one end of the c-clamp on the rotor (right next to the outboard pads) and the other on the inboard side of the caliber - be careful to slide the clamp UNDER the brake hose on the back of the caliper. Open up the brake fluid resevoir before you do this so you don't build up pressure in the resevoir as you push the fluid back into it. Make sure it doesn't overflow onto the engine as it is corrosive.

4. Remove the banjo spring/clip that holds the outboard pad
against the caliper. Remember how it went on! You need a good size set of needle nose pliers for this.

5. Unbolt the caliper. The caliper slide bolts are actually
recessed hex bolts - they have a black plastic cap over them that you have to pop off (and save). The caliper slide bolt requires a 7 mm hex (allen) key wrench. Only problem is, with most allen key
wrenches about 3- or 4-inches long, you need a lot of force - and you will skin your knuckles. Plan ahead and buy a 7 mm hex key socket for your ratchet wrench - you'll thank me later, several times over.

6. Lift off the caliper and rest it on something sturdy - I used an
upside down milk crate with the rotor box on top of that. Anything
that will support the caliper and not put any weight or stress on the brake line.

7. BEFORE YOU PULL THE INBOARD PADS OFF THE CALIPER, turn it over an look at the back. There is an anti-rattle spring that goes between the center (and back) of the inboard pad and the caliper casting. Look at it and remember how it goes in. Remove the spring now and put it aside.

8. Remove the inboard pad next. However, first take the c-clamp and put one end over the inboard pad and the other over the back of the caliper. Carefully back the caliper pistons back into the cylinders. Stop when it doesn't move back easily anymore - don't bust the cylinder! Remove the inboard pads. These calipers have twin cylinders. Check the cylinders and their rubber boots for any leaks. At this point you should put the cap back on the brake fluid resevoir.

9. Put the new pads on. I apply high-temp silicone brake lubricant to the back of the pads (where they contact the caliper body or piston rims). This reduces noise/squeaks. DON'T put the lubricant on the friction material of the pad - my friend said that's what he thought it was for and use to do this when he did his brakes!!

10. I used OEM-spec ceramic pads from NAPA - $85 for the set.
Claimed to be "low-dusting". They come with new stainless steel
clips for the pads and the caliper bracket. These clips attach to
the pads where the pads slide on the caliper bracket. Another set
attaches to the caliper bracket on the surface that the pads slide.
This provides for stainless steel on stainless steel contact - and
eliminates the wear and resulting saddle that can develop on a bare caliper bracket where the pads slide.

11. Put the new stainless steel clips on the pads and caliper
bracket if you haven't done so already. Discard the old ones. Re-
install the anti-rattle spring between the back of the inboard pad
and the caliper body (see step 7).

12. To remove the rotor, you have to unbolt the caliper mounting bracket. This does suck and is not usually necessary on lighter vehicles. This part of the job requires a lot of force - the two attaching bolts are serious size. Fortunately, the wheel well is big enough that you can get your whole body over the bracket and apply a lot of force. The two caliper bolts are 18 mm. Again, save yourself some time and buy an 18 mm socket (think 3/8 inch drive) ahead of time. I found that my old Craftsman set (about 50 piece - English and Metric) didn't come with an 18 mm socket. Only 17 mm and 19 mm. You might get away with using a 3/4-inch socket - then again, you might round over the bolt and be really screwed. Being a Sunday afternoon, there
was no place nearby to get an 18mm socket - so I used an adjustable wrench - carefully. It worked but next time I'll buy the 18mm socket.

13. After taking off the bracket, the rotor comes off. Depending on
how well the penetrating oil worked (that you should have put on
first thing!) a little hammering should be all you'll need.
Alternatively, you may need a lot of hammering on the rotor to loosen it up - they get rusted onto the axle hub. I used a non-rebound hammer and a punch to bang on the rotor between the studs and then around the face of the rotor.

14. Put the new rotor on. I used cheaper Chinese rotors - $45 each from Advance Auto Parts. US-made rotors cost about $85 each and come with no guarantee that they'll be any better than the Chinese rotors. Additionally, the parts store (which supplies a lot of garages) claimed they have had no complaints about the Chinese rotors - he didn't even offer me the US-made rotors. They come turned and balanced. Before I put the rotors on, I first spay down the new rotor with brake-clean to get off the oil that they are coated with to prevent rusting during shipping. I then apply anit- sieze goop to the rotor hub surface that will mate to the axle hub - DON'T put it on the part of the rotor where the pad rides! I put some on the axle hub face as well. Just don't get it onto the stud threads. The anti-sieze goop will prevent the new rotor from rusting onto the hub like the old one probably did - you or the guy that does the next brake job on your truck will thank you later. You can use the silicone brake lube for this purpose as well - just make it a light coating so it doesn't ooze and get onto the main part of the rotor.

15. Use two of the lug nuts to temporarily hold the rotor in place -
it makes mounting the caliper bracket and caliper much easier.

16. Bolt the caliper bracket back into place. I don't know the
torque spec - but you can get a good idea from the force required to take the bolts off in the first place. I don't think you can over-
torque the bolts given the space you have to work in.

17. Apply silicone brake lube to the contact faces of the new stainless steel clips you installed on the caliper bracket and the pads.

18. Install the caliper. Before installing the caliper bolts,
lubricate the slide portion of the caliper bolts with brake lub -
just check and make sure the lube is o.k. to use on slide bolts. The wrong lube will deteriorate the rubber boots that the bolts go
through. Don't get the lube on the bolt threads. Again, I don't
know the torque spec for the caliper bolts but you will remember how much force it took to loosen them - act accordingly. You could
probably strip these if you tried.

19. Re-install the banjo spring clip that holds the outboard pad against the caliper - you'll need needle nose pliers.

19. Put the plastic caps back on the caliper bolt heads.

20. Take off the two lug nuts temporarily holding on the rotor.

21. Install the tire. The torque spec on the 2004 Expedition lug nuts is 150 ft- lbs. (THIS MAY BE LESS FOR OTHER YEAR EXPEDITIONS - CHECK YOUR OWNER'S MANUAL) Good Luck - it took all I had and I'm 5'11' and 265 lbs. Tighten them in steps - all to 50 ft-lbs, all to 100 ft-lbs, and then all to 150 ft-lbs. Tighten them by doing one lug nut (say at 6 o'clock on the hub) then moving to the opposite side of the hub (12 o'clock on the hub) and doing one. This will make sure the wheel is tightened evenly and will avoid potentially warping the rotor by tightening the lug nuts unevenly.

22. Start the truck and pump the brake pedal until it's firm - it
takes a number of pumps to get the pads back in contact with the
rotor. Then check the brake fluid level and make sure you don't need more or have to take some out.

23. Test drive it on a hill - gently. No need to cook them first time out.

That's it. Good luck - and don't try it unless you have enough time
to go slow, be careful, and watch what you're doing. I've done
brakes before and it took me two hours. If you've never done a brake job before, leave yourself four hours and ask a friend who has done one to come help you - or to at least watch you and give you encouragement!!

A couple of thoughts on Ford engineering: 1) Why the odd-ball 18mm bolt size on the caliper bracket, 2) Why the nearly unreachable location for the oil filter, 3) Why the location and mounting arrangement for the oil dipstick? 4) Why can't you use the SAT on the radio in dual mode with the DVD?

Sometimes I wonder if the engineers at Ford have EVER worked on their own cars. Maybe if you're a Ford employee you get a discount at the stealership and don't have to pay an hourly repair rate that's nearly the same as an attorney (my stealership is over $100 per hour).

If anybody has a shop manual and can post the torque spec on the caliper bracket bolts and the caliper slide bolts, please do.

Thanks,

Paul
 
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