2008 5.4 probs

[b1pig]

Hello all.

I've got some questions I figured I'd ask here. I'm more into Jeeps than anything... and honestly, I've never been a Ford fan. (flame on) with that outta that way....


I've got a 2008 Expedition. We'll call it a "emergency vehicle". it also serves as a tow rig for a "emergency response/command trailer".
83,000+ miles on it. i've been pretty much the sole operator since it was new. at 12,000 miles the cat(s) on the left bank were replaced. and again at 27,000 miles. power steering pump at 31,000 miles. thats it for warranty work. outside warranty, our shop replaced the radiator when the upper (return) tube cracked and the condensor. i was not aware the transmission cooler was a part of the condensor on the expedition. (it is on my '07 wrangler...)

anyway. the "problem"
i've noticed a LOT of bottom end clatter thats mostly audible around 800-900 rpm in gear with a light load. like creeping uphill. i figure the bottom end is getting sloppy.... but if it continues for more than 15 or so seconds, it seems like the knock sensors pick it up and then the engine starts surging and crap.... so it can get pretty loud. thats really "only" in that range. put the throttle down and the clatter lessens to more 'acceptable' levels.

the other thing.
its loosing coolant. since the condensor replacement in June, its been loosing coolant. no signs of leaks. in the last week, i've put roughly 3/4 gallon of water in it. i've had no access to HOAT as the shop is locked up... so water is what it gets. shop has put HOAT in it twice since June also. sitting idle, CHT would run 210-220... other day, it shot up to 240*... thats how i found out my tank was empty. i filled it up, and now its back down below the minimum level mark on the tank. (filled it up twice since that incident)

this is "screamin" blown head gasket right now. oil is still perfect. no steam on startup. no apparent heat core leaks.

any other ideas?


as a side note....
the transmission temps in this thing... stays right there with the engine temp. on a hard run to a call, i've had the trans temp up to 235*. mid summer last year, i towed our trailer and was intentionally a little hard on it. trans temp for up to 240*.... the shop will NOT install an aux cooler. any of you see similar temps?


thanks.
billy

 

[b1pig]

just a note. the coolant leak was found. coolant was seeping from the water pump and only leaving a light film on the front of the block. it was evaporating before it got below the oil pan. its currently in the shop now getting the pump replaced and they're also looking into the engine knock. i'll pass on what's found.

 

[Whack]

As an emergency vehicle, how often is it idled?

 

[b1pig]

lol. constantly. (almost)

in truth...

83,000 miles on it. it usually runs about 6 hours a day whether idle or mobile. since mine is the primary tow rig for our trailer i convinced them to buy a Aeroforce scan gauge. thats what i use to keep tabs on stuff. sadly, it won't report the actual oil pressure or oil temp. head temp and transmission temp are the two most important to me, though and it does that well.

 

[JUST4FUN]

Are you saying it has no aux trans cooler ? if not, i think this expy is not set up for towing. how big is the trailer? weight of said trailer? is it a box trailer?? your also pulling it lights and siren right.

 

[b1pig]

i forget the exact weight, but its its just inside the max weight fully loaded with me in it. not in emergency mode. if they spent more than $1.23 for a set of brake pads, maybe. they put the cheapest junk on our vehicles possible.

i pulled the specs out online for the tow ratings. the only differences between the "heavy duty" towing package on our vehicle was supposed to be an auxilary transmission cooler and a 7 pin harness so you could add a brake controller. our trailer has brakes, but again, thats money we haven't convinced them to spend since its considered a "rare instance" that we do anything with the trailer other than quarterly training.

ironic as it sounds...
when i came back off leave, there was a transmission leak at the front. the radiator had been replaced, so i thought the "new" one had failed. turns out... there was a crack. my truck has a cooler which is integrated into the a/c condensor.... so thats what led to that getting replaced.

as it is, i've already lobbied to get an aux cooler. its another $100 that i'm hoping they'll eventually spring for. at some point, i may be able to get them to buy the 7 pin harness (checking compatability) and a brake controller and call it good. in theory, i shouldn't have to pull the trailer out of town... or at least the county if mutual aid is requested. in any case, if we are requested, our response will be a leisurely one.

 

[JUST4FUN]

well if the trailer has brakes and your not using them thats not leagal. you are braking the law. read the rules of the road, in my state if the trailer is 3000 lbs or more GVW it has to have working breaks.
its not a"rare instance" if someone stops fast in front of you and you pile drive into them.
I dont mean to be an a$$ but emergency responce teams SHOULD KNOW BETTER.

 

[b1pig]

thank you for your concern... and yes. i am aware of it and in the attempt to get it rectified. the deicision isn't just "one person". theres a process, and as stated earlier, i'm involved in it.

this would also indicate that i would "know better".


if someone stops fast in front of me whether i have a trailer or not, i'd still be at fault anyway.

 

[Robert Gift]

...83,000 miles on it. it usually runs about 6 hours a day whether idle or mobile. ...

Why is it idling so much?

 

[JUST4FUN]

thank you for your concern... and yes. i am aware of it and in the attempt to get it rectified. the deicision isn't just "one person". theres a process, and as stated earlier, i'm involved in it.

this would also indicate that i would "know better".


if someone stops fast in front of me whether i have a trailer or not, i'd still be at fault anyway.

Iwould get the rules of the road and show it to them , at the least they need a brake controller in the truck. i went through the same thing your going through now, with a trailer we have for grass cutting at public works.

 

[b1pig]

its in the "burocracy" process... believe me. its getting worked out. just slowly.


as for idling...
the electronics that are in the vehicle require power when on. the expedition does not have the ability to run dual batteries without significant modification, so i can't let it sit more than an hour anyway. beyond that, it almost always has to get jumped off.

its a modern world. we run modern junk.


editing for more explanation....
Ford, Dodge and Chevy all make police and "Special Service" vehicles for use as emergency vehicles. they tend to have "upgraded" electrical systems. In short, this means they are supposed to have some form of a high output alternator. the norm for emergency responders across the board is in-car computers, camera systems and ofcourse lights and siren. these items can severely tax the charging systems. in '98 the crown vic was a pile of junk compared to the '97. you could only run a 8 strobe light bar and siren. additional junk would usually result in alternator failure. the plug on the back would melt. the 2012 Charger uses a 220 am alternator and something like 8ga wire and easily works in a dual battery setup. i think the new caprice has dual battery support and can be ordered that way.

most of the trucks can be had that way, too. every ambulance at the local ems unit has dual batteries and its needed to run the rear cab.

i explain this because many people outside emergency service has little or no idea about these kind of things. electrical problems are just one reason why the LED technology is so hot. lower current draw. an 8 strobe Whelen EDGE 9000 lightbar was rated to draw 90 amps. a "12-head" LED lightbar from can draw as little as 30 amps depending on features. siren can pull around 30 amps. computer around 15. cameras vary widely, but ours is fused at 15 i think. add any addition lighting.... radios... radars....

it adds up quiet a bit in a "worse case scenario". emergency service rigs are put through the ringer daily, which is why we try to get the manufacturers to build em better than the average vehicle. ('98 CVPI is perfect example why)






to follow up on my original post.
i've read this occuring to others, but i've never experienced this myself. the failing water pump seemed to be the cause of the elevated cylinder head temps i was getting. the engine was not yet in danger of overheating yet... but there clearly was not enough coolant flow through the engine to adequately cool it.

i'll be following up with them about the engine noise. there was no change there. (was in shop for day and a half)
i'll find out tomorrow. its parked back at the shop after the plastic thing on the line to the heater core split open dousing the engine bay in coolant. this is the second time this has happened.....

 

[JUST4FUN]

wonder if the fan clutch is going south

 

[b1pig]

not so far. it actually seems to engage pretty good and seems to pull the air through the radiator pretty good.