2011 Random Stall while driving - Update: FIXED w canister purge valve.

[hawkman71]

Hi all.

Short story: 2011 Exped that stalls randomly. Sometimes daily, sometimes months between events. Scary for the wife and kids (and me, therefore). Only code I've seen is:P0130 Oxygen Sensor Circuit Bank 1 Sensor 1.

Short story extra info:
Bought it from a Dodge dealership and the first stall happened w/i the 3500-mi warranty period but all they want to do is drive it till the problem happens again. It hasn't happened so they say they've done all they can do.... help! We're leaving on a long trip Friday morning and it's been stalling again. I've read all over the internet and there seems to be no consistent fix.

Longer story:
We have a 2011 EL Ltd E̶c̶o̶B̶o̶o̶s̶t̶ that we bought used one year ago from a Dodge dealership. Shortly after (w/i the 3500-mi warranty), it stalled on us while idling outside a gas station. The next day, it stalled on us as we rolled through an intersection in a small town. We were basically coasting, so low idle. That evening, it wouldn't start after filling up. The only way it seemed to start is if I pumped the pedal (WHICH I KNOW MAKES NO SENSE and probably had no effect).

A check-engine light doesn't always come on and if it does, it usually is cleared before we get to a place to check it. (see short story above for code)

What it feels like: I'm driving along and the gas pedal goes slack if you know what i mean, the RPMs start fluctuating up and down but there is no response to the pushing the pedal. I put it in neutral and coast, and I've never been able to keep it going. It always stalls after a few seconds. Sometimes it will start right back up. Other times, I'll sit there and try a few times. It's never left us completely stranded, but it is a dangerous situation to have. (I recently drove through the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel in my work truck and shuddered to think of the stalling happening there with vehicles behind and only a couple feet clearance on both sides with the wall and oncoming traffic...)

Normally, I'm Mr. Fixit when it comes to vehicles. This helpless feeling sucks. I'm worried to take it to a different dealership/repair shop and just throw money at fixes w/o truly knowing what it is.

Is there a chance that a Ford dealership can actually diagnose the issue with it's diagnostic equipment?

I'm praying for a solution. Please help. Thanks.

 

[hawkman71]

I'll add that it sometimes has a rough idle at start.
Is the Oxygen sensor 1, bank 1, located right ahead of the cat?

 

[Flexpedition]

Not all trouble generate a check engine light. There are likely stored codes and having the Ford dealer pull them is a good start.

I've read a few posts here on failed throttle bodies and suspect that is where your trouble possibly lies. IIRC, the small electrical servo motor that opens/closes the butterfly gives up the ghost and replacing the entire assembly seems like the fix.

 

[hawkman71]

Thanks. I also understand that the P0130 code may be triggered by a different problem that triggers the o2 sensor...

In this case, is it best that I take it to a dealership? Are good one-off mechanics as well equipped to diagnose?

 

[sjwelds]

Um, 2011 is NOT Ecoboost....

 

[hawkman71]

Um, 2011 is NOT Ecoboost....

You are correct! My bad. I was reading some posts and the word was stuck in my head I guess.

 

[benyl]

I have the same problem with my 2010 f150. I’m pretty sure it’s a dirty throttle body that’s out of sync after I changed the battery.

Just haven’t gotten around to cleaning.

Mine will stall consistently after I gas up.


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[Plati]

Buy a $20 bluetooth OBD2 code reader (I have BAFX) and install Torque Lite on your phone. Learn how to read codes and leave in vehicle so you can get it when it happens.

 

[hawkman71]

...pretty sure it’s a dirty throttle body that’s out of sync after I changed the battery...Mine will stall consistently after I gas up.

Interesting. It's happened multiple times to us sitting at the pump, just having filled. However, it's also happened at other times.

Buy a $20 bluetooth OBD2 code reader

Will check it out. A friend had recommended Kiwi but I think that starts at $100 or so. I wonder if I can find one as you suggest at NAPAdvance-O'Reilly-Zone...

 

[benyl]

Interesting. It's happened multiple times to us sitting at the pump, just having filled. However, it's also happened at other times.

Yeah, it happens to me in the morning on the way to work at a particular stop light after I get off the freeway. If I don’t have to stop, I’m good. If I do, it stalls.


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[Habbibie]

An oxygen sensor doesnt shut the motor off, it'll put the car in limb mode but never a full shut down. A throttle body gives tale tale signs but it uses a sensor solely to the throttle body position, anyways...

I been in your situation before, different car but identical problem. Gets worse over time it'll eventually start stalling more frequently and it'll take longer & longer to restart... can & will be up to 90+ minutes of cool down time before you can restart it, it sucked for me I would pretty much take a nap in the highway shoulder or some random parking lot

 

[Habbibie]

The code that you're speaking of that comes and goes before you get to it is a p0300 (random misfire detected) it goes off because when you restart the motor after the cool down time its working properly and the engine doesnt detect a misfire upon start up and erases it.

If you're handy and willing to get dirty then I challange you to troubleshoot your FUEL PUMP, if and when it does again I want you to put your ear inside the fuel filler nozzle and turn the key to ON position, dont attempt to start it just ON position, I'll bet you $100 bucks it wont be humming, do that same test an hour or two later and it'll be humming, it doesn't set a permanent CEL because it's a mechanical problem, not something that has a sensor hooked up to it. You can take it to the dealer or whoever you desire but have them troubleshoot the fuel pump for over-heating, its an expensive fix if you go to shop for it!
pumps alone (good quality not Chinese knockoffs) usually are expensive $200-$600 for the pump alone... add labor and you have yourself a party.

 

[coolzzy]

Check the fuel pump fuse under the hood, I believe its fuse 27. There is a tsb for the fuse holder melting, and Ford offers a fuse relocation kit that takes a half hour to install, but it moves the fuse to a larger style and in a different spot in the panel under the hood. It can cause the vehicle to shut off and cause a no crank or a crank no start situation. It affects all the 5.4, 5.0, and 3.5 F150s and the expedition as well. The kit is like 16 bucks on ebay. Pull the fuse and inspect the fuse socket for melted plastic or burned contacts.

 

[Habbibie]

Check the fuel pump fuse under the hood, I believe its fuse 27. There is a tsb for the fuse holder melting, and Ford offers a fuse relocation kit that takes a half hour to install, but it moves the fuse to a larger style and in a different spot in the panel under the hood. It can cause the vehicle to shut off and cause a no crank or a crank no start situation. It affects all the 5.4, 5.0, and 3.5 F150s and the expedition as well. The kit is like 16 bucks on ebay. Pull the fuse and inspect the fuse socket for melted plastic or burned contacts.

What exactly are you helping by posting this? The truck TURNS ON & DRIVES!!! If a fuse melts it'll either keep working or it'll blow, if it blows it'll prohibit the truck from starting over again unless replaced, if it melts in its place but still maintains near zero ohms of resistance then it will keep working and NOT intermittently come & go out of service.

 

[coolzzy]

Not true, it starts as an intermittent issue with the vehicle stalling out. Look on the F150 forums and see this same issue driving people nuts, and it is becoming increasingly more common. It's a simple thing to check and repair or rule out. Just trying to offer some possible suggestions is all.

 

[hawkman71]

I took it to Ford this morning and was waiting when the opened but they didn't have time to look at it ("booked 5 days out"). I understand, partly. Can't jump at every walkup that wants something checked. I told him we were leaving on a trip in a couple days and that the onus was on Dodge to fix it but I was looking for a second opinion. I told him what we were experiencing and he said "Throttle body. I see it all the time". It stalled on me 3 times this morning on a 60-mile trip to the Ford and then Dodge place.

Dodge called the Ford place to hear what they said and will be replacing the throttle body and the O2 sensor. I'm praying that covers it.

 

[hawkman71]

Habbibie and coolzy and some others - I missed your posts today as I was working and at the dealerships - although I could've read them while I waited to re-start my stalled Exped a few times today!

I'll keep you all informed.

I will do the fuel pump test as you describe and check all fuses.

 

[Cookieman00x]

What exactly are you helping by posting this? The truck TURNS ON & DRIVES!!! If a fuse melts it'll either keep working or it'll blow, if it blows it'll prohibit the truck from starting over again unless replaced, if it melts in its place but still maintains near zero ohms of resistance then it will keep working and NOT intermittently come & go out of service.

He is just trying to help, relax...


I dont think the fuel pump is the issue, however a fuse can cause an intermittent issue.

Melting can cause the contacts between the fuse block and the fuse to have intermittent connection based on expanding and contracting from heat or the fuse holder contacts could be loose. Doubtful in either case, but something to check non the less.



My thoughts were leading me to the IAC. Id clean it and check its operation, Id also check and clean the MAF.


Also check for leaks after the MAF to the throttle body. Leaks after the mass air sensor can cause all sorts of goofy symptoms.

If you dont have a code scanner, get a cheap one off amazon or take the car to you local autozone and have them pull the codes for free.

 

[FordTraveler]

I had the same problem on an old car. It would stall every time I was at a stop light. I would have to drop it into neutral every time I would come to a stop and rev the engine. It was SUPER annoying. Eventually I found a super small vacuum leak that was almost the size of a pin hole. It was on a plastic t-connector that I was able to buy at the auto part store for pennies. I drove for around 3 months like this and it drove me nuts. The only reason I was able to find it was because my uncle worked at a police department and serviced the cars and he found similar problems. He told me that because the tubes were located near the battery, some how the acid would erode the plastic or something.

 

[hawkman71]

UPDATE:

I took the Exped to Ford to hear what they might say. They were booked 5 days out and couldn't look but he said it sounds like a throttle body. We do lots of those on that engine. I went to Dodge and they said they'd call the Ford place. They called me to say they put a new throttle body and O2 sensor in and that I should be good to go. This was covered by them, thank goodness. I was pretty happy but nervous that it wouldn't fix it. I asked him if they drove it and he said: "No, I think that fixed it, don't you?" I said, "I don't know, let's see".

When it sputtered when I started it, I got nervous. I drove one mile down the road and put 10 bucks of gas in just to see what would happen. Lo and behold. It wouldn't start! It just sat there and cranked and cranked until I turned the key back. Finally, it started and then drove fine - except for a rough idle.

The dealership then told me it was probably bad gas and my issue, not theirs. As far as they were concerned, the vehicle had no problems.

I'm leaving out the drama but now I got to figure it out.

And we were going on a 900-mile trip on Friday!!!