2013 XLT bubbling paint

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Zmann96

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Hi, I'm new to this site. I had a 1998 Expedition back in 2003 and loved it. I just purchased a 2013 XLT with every option, Nav, HD tow package etc. It's Kodiak Brown and the paint is bubbling on the rear lift hatch. I understand it's not rust but oxidation on the aluminum causing corrosion. I enjoy doing most of my own repairs but not a professional painter just ok. I was thinking of prepping the rear hatch for paint and then take it to a shop for the professional paint job.
While I was searching for solutions I found a company that has a color code OEM match for their car wrap material. I was wondering if anyone on this site has used that option? I thought the wrap would stop the aluminum from oxidizing. It seems even after repainting the bubbling comes back.
 

99WhiteC5Coupe

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Hi, I'm new to this site. I had a 1998 Expedition back in 2003 and loved it. I just purchased a 2013 XLT with every option, Nav, HD tow package etc. It's Kodiak Brown and the paint is bubbling on the rear lift hatch. I understand it's not rust but oxidation on the aluminum causing corrosion. I enjoy doing most of my own repairs but not a professional painter just ok. I was thinking of prepping the rear hatch for paint and then take it to a shop for the professional paint job.
While I was searching for solutions I found a company that has a color code OEM match for their car wrap material. I was wondering if anyone on this site has used that option? I thought the wrap would stop the aluminum from oxidizing. It seems even after repainting the bubbling comes back.


Ford’s TSB regarding the aluminum panel corrosion on the Expedition (and other vehicles) states to replace the panel to eliminate the corrosion.

Ford has known about this problem and defect for YEARS, and chose to ignore the problem and not determine the root cause (and eliminate it).

One reason while I’ll never buy another Ford with any aluminum panels.

Here is a link to 49 pages for one post regarding the problem: https://www.expeditionforum.com/thr...read-fords-response.16012/page-49#post-366816

Good luck.
 

mjp2

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Hi, I'm new to this site. I had a 1998 Expedition back in 2003 and loved it. I just purchased a 2013 XLT with every option, Nav, HD tow package etc. It's Kodiak Brown and the paint is bubbling on the rear lift hatch. I understand it's not rust but oxidation on the aluminum causing corrosion. I enjoy doing most of my own repairs but not a professional painter just ok. I was thinking of prepping the rear hatch for paint and then take it to a shop for the professional paint job.
While I was searching for solutions I found a company that has a color code OEM match for their car wrap material. I was wondering if anyone on this site has used that option? I thought the wrap would stop the aluminum from oxidizing. It seems even after repainting the bubbling comes back.
A quality body shop won't touch the panel once it starts oxidizing. Wrap would work initially but will eventually bubble as the underlying material turns to powder.

Depending on how "truck" you're willing to go with your vehicle you could sand down the hatch and coat it with bedliner. There are many color options out there and you could likely find something that approximates the color of your truck.
 
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Zmann96

Zmann96

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If I wrapped it after sanding the panel and using a primer for oxidization and then a good paint, wouldn't the wrap and paints keep the aluminum from the elements. I haven't removed the interior panel and not sure if the inside of the panel is treated. If it isn't I would prime and paint that as well. I will never match the Kodiak brown metallic
 

mjp2

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When I pulled the inside trim panel off I had bubbling inside that rear hatch panel. At a certain point there's only so much that can be done to save it.

Use a aluminum primer with zinc to hopefully slow down the process and then wrap away. Definitely post pics of the process as we'd all like to see how it goes.
 
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Zmann96

Zmann96

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Ok, I will. It may be a few weeks from now, I'm up north in New Hampshire and still a bit cold to work outside. Trying to source a local shop that has the coded wrap color, if not I'll buy from online. thank for your input much appreciated.
 

Plati

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My theory about that bubbling (I have a 2003 & 2014) is that it happens where the surface ends and the metal is rolled over forming a curved termination. Like ... at the front of the hood. The paint is on the exterior of the curve and the metal interior so they traverse different distances. Being a small radius curve, the difference is a substantial percentage of total distance. The paint and metal expand and contract different amounts and eventually the paint cracks allowing water to get underneath and be trapped where its in prime conditions for oxidation (aluminum oxide) because the water just stays there. The paint and metal are going to expand and contract at different rates anyway but it's exacerbated by the curved surface and that is a highly stressed area. Either that or the paint just can't remain stable on a tight radius like that which is kind of the same thing. I don't think I explained this well but hopefully you get the idea. It never seems to bubble away from terminations like in the middle of the hood. I sanded off the paint on my 2003 hood 2 or 3 years ago exposing raw aluminum and it looks the same today that it did when I originally did that so raw aluminum that is allowed to dry won't oxidize like on an airplane fuselage. The first pic is my 2014 hood and you can see the cracks in the paint and the second pic is my 2003 experiment. I've never heard this theory repeated by anyone else so either I'm crazy or hit on something. Or both.

It would be interesting to know if paint bubbling happens in warm states like Florida. I think water trapped under the paint that wicked in there through a crack will freeze/thaw pushing paint up and work its way back just like rocks crack via the same process in nature.
IMG_2475.JPG
IMG_2474.JPG

To each their own but I just live with it. I'm not preaching but its just a vehicle and its going to get beat on and over time turn into a wreck. I just live with it and be glad when it gets me to my destination safely and comfortably.
 
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Zmann96

Zmann96

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I see your point with the expansion, maybe it also might have something to do with how much the paint can expand as opposed to the aluminum. I'd be curious as well to see if this happens as much in a more constant temperature climate. I do know that aluminum will expand twice the amount of steel for the same temperatures which doesn't help when comparing the steel part of the truck. So If prep correctly and wrap the vinyl around the corners to underside of panels it might help out.
Thanks for that incite.
 

stil

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I just got rid of a 16 with this issue on the hood and tailgate. Ford replaced both.
Aluminum isn’t the same process as giving steel panels. Need someone that knows what they are doing from what I understand.
 

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It has yet to happen on my 2014. But it spent its first four years in South Carolina. Now 3 years in Massachusetts and still all good. My 2009 had this issue, which was a Massachusetts only truck. I had the hood and tailgate repainted, begin to happen again within a year and a half.
 
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My 08 has this issue on hood and tailgate and am looking at replacing both. The problem I am seeing is that the 08 and 09 have different part numbers according to ford.
 
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Zmann96

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I was at a CMA meeting today and bumped into a friend that I hadn't seen in a while. He restores cars, I told him about the problem with these aluminum panels. He knew what I was talking about the minute I mentioned it. He explained to me that it's the reaction between the steel and aluminum, similar to an outboard motor in salt water. He said he saw a big plow truck from NY ( lots of winter salt) the body was aluminum, he said there is a process, like zinc blocks on an outboard that eats the zinc rather than eating the aluminum. He wasn't sure what metal they used to stop the steel and aluminum reaction but that's what's happening. I may call a metallurgist to see if they could give me the solution. I'll let you know if I get any info. It may be as simple as a zinc or other metal washers installed on the bolts that secure the hood and lift gate.
 

Plati

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I was at a CMA meeting today and bumped into a friend that I hadn't seen in a while. He restores cars, I told him about the problem with these aluminum panels. He knew what I was talking about the minute I mentioned it. He explained to me that it's the reaction between the steel and aluminum, similar to an outboard motor in salt water. He said he saw a big plow truck from NY ( lots of winter salt) the body was aluminum, he said there is a process, like zinc blocks on an outboard that eats the zinc rather than eating the aluminum. He wasn't sure what metal they used to stop the steel and aluminum reaction but that's what's happening. I may call a metallurgist to see if they could give me the solution. I'll let you know if I get any info. It may be as simple as a zinc or other metal washers installed on the bolts that secure the hood and lift gate.
Sounds like he's claiming its galvanic corrosion. I don't buy it but what do I know. I saw galvanic corrosion on my aluminum body snowmobile trailer ... where the aluminum was in contact with the steel suspension. That causes electrolysis where they are in contact.
Salt water is an electrolyte so that would speed up or enable the electrolysis but water is sufficient also because water in the road environment is not pure H2O, contains ions.

This paint bubbling is not where aluminum is in contact with steel, hence I don't buy galvanic corrosion.

There is another theory put forward by most people that it had something to do with the dies used to stamp the aluminum parts. Something about contamination from previous use stamping steel parts. I never really understood it and I don't buy that theory either.

As I said ... I dunno and I have never hear another scientist/person repeat my theory.

Hot water heaters and boats and many other things use sacrificial anodes of zinc in a manner that seems like what your friend relates. As far as I know they are not successfully used in vehicles although you can find some sales of things like that or adding a charge to the steel on a vehicle to prevent corrosion, which also is a trick to get your money IMHO.

I sanded off the hood on my 2003 (as in my pic) partly because so many people were claiming that without the protective coating of the paint it would corrode in the road salt spray environment in no time. Zero corrosion in 3 years. Plus I just like to play and have a good time and it seemed like fun!

Expy's have been known to have galvanic corrosion in parts associated with the radiator due to dissimilar metals in contact with each other but I don't know much about that since I've never had to deal with it.

I did some studying on this once since I'm very interested in corrosion. Bare aluminum will almost instantly form a thin protective layer of aluminum oxide when exposed to air. It's so thin you can't see it but it protects the aluminum under it. Thats why my 2003 never corroded where I sanded the paint off.
 
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Plati

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Here is an example of galvanic corrosion on my 2003 Expy. It's the heat shield from above the exhaust. See the two holes? Thats where steel bolts bolted the aluminum heat shield to the steel frame. Galvanic corrosion used up the aluminum leaving nothing and it fell off, no longer fastened on. .... where aluminum and steel were in contact.
IMG_2478.JPG

I'm not a chemist or metallurgist, but I did sleep in my 2014 Expy last night. LOL
 

ManUpOrShutUp

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If I wrapped it after sanding the panel and using a primer for oxidization and then a good paint, wouldn't the wrap and paints keep the aluminum from the elements. I haven't removed the interior panel and not sure if the inside of the panel is treated. If it isn't I would prime and paint that as well. I will never match the Kodiak brown metallic

The problem is under the paint, so regardless of what you put over it, the problem will persist.
 

Machete

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I was at a CMA meeting today and bumped into a friend that I hadn't seen in a while. He restores cars, I told him about the problem with these aluminum panels. He knew what I was talking about the minute I mentioned it. He explained to me that it's the reaction between the steel and aluminum, similar to an outboard motor in salt water. He said he saw a big plow truck from NY ( lots of winter salt) the body was aluminum, he said there is a process, like zinc blocks on an outboard that eats the zinc rather than eating the aluminum. He wasn't sure what metal they used to stop the steel and aluminum reaction but that's what's happening. I may call a metallurgist to see if they could give me the solution. I'll let you know if I get any info. It may be as simple as a zinc or other metal washers installed on the bolts that secure the hood and lift gate.

Yup. I lost a $10k Mercruiser Bravo outdrive to electrolysis.
Dissimilar metals conducting electricity causes this corrosion. In particular aluminum (like my outdrive) and steel ( like my SS prop).
Once it’s in the metal you can’t get it out. Ask me how I know.
 

K9 Handler

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How about using Zinc Chromate primer (if it's still available...it's pretty toxic). I had a 1971 Porsche that used it on some panels and wheels and had no issues. My 2013 Expy has edge of hood and rear hatch starting to bubble like the pictures.
 
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