2020 Expy Limited in-dash display??

[Lou Hamilton]

The issue with wireless CarPlay as I understand it, is that you can’t use in car Wi-Fi if you’re also using wireless CarPlay.


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I've looked into this extensively to see if I can upgrade to it. It can be done but it is very cumbersome and not guaranteed.

Wireless CarPlay uses both Bluetooth and WiFi to work. You think, "great", I have both today. However, as you noted, if it could be enabled, the in-car WiFi would need to be used for it. The fix in newer deployed systems is using a dual band router in the car for the WiFi. That way, one band can be used for CarPlay and the other for your typical devices connecting to the car.

 

[carymccarr]

I've looked into this extensively to see if I can upgrade to it. It can be done but it is very cumbersome and not guaranteed.

Wireless CarPlay uses both Bluetooth and WiFi to work. You think, "great", I have both today. However, as you noted, if it could be enabled, the in-car WiFi would need to be used for it. The fix in newer deployed systems is using a dual band router in the car for the WiFi. That way, one band can be used for CarPlay and the other for your typical devices connecting to the car.

Wait...In this dual band model...if my phone is connected to the car via wifi for carplay how do I then also connect to mobile wifi to stream music etc?


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[MxRacer965]

Wait...In this dual band model...if my phone is connected to the car via wifi for carplay how do I then also connect to mobile wifi to stream music etc?


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Think about it as a mobile version of the wireless router in your home. Same concept. Phone connected to in vehicle wifi and that is also connected to LTE.

And Lou is correct in that this isn’t something you can easily upgrade to, due to the aforementioned wireless router built into the car that we don’t currently have.

 

[carymccarr]

Think about it as a mobile version of the wireless router in your home. Same concept. Phone connected to in vehicle wifi and that is also connected to LTE.

And Lou is correct in that this isn’t something you can easily upgrade to, due to the aforementioned wireless router built into the car that we don’t currently have.

Right so you can’t use wireless
Carplay and be connected to the in car wifi.

 

[mwl001]

Right so you can’t use wireless
Carplay and be connected to the in car wifi.

That's interesting, I always just assumed that was a limitation of the aftermarket wireless carplay modules out there, didn't even dawn on me that issue could be native to the whole platform.

 

[Lou Hamilton]

Right so you can’t use wireless
Carplay and be connected to the in car wifi.

I’ll to do some more research. I did not think that deeply into it.

In the IT world, there is something called “split tunneling” where you can direct know traffic down one secure path and all other traffic to another, which is typically an Internet access path.

This would have to be a function of the router being used as that is here the path would split. Now that I think of it, there would need to be some additional configuration as part of the CarPlay function (if it is not already doing this). The API being used would need to be able to set the parameters of what are tagged as destined for the SYNC system (outbound) and the Internet/cloud old be set differently (inbound with only approved ACK).

If it is a dual band router, one band could be set for the CarPly function. the other could be set for general WiFi connectivity to the LTE modem. A firewall rule could be setup to allow traffic between the two “networks” for connectivity to specific apps. These apps are already known since they are currently mapped to CarPlay in the Apple IOS settings.

This is outside my capabilities of implementing it, but this is what I feel would need to occur in order to utilize the in-car WiFi for both CarPlay and general device access.


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[DWs-TTEB]

I’ll to do some more research. I did not think that deeply into it.

In the IT world, there is something called “split tunneling” where you can direct know traffic down one secure path and all other traffic to another, which is typically an Internet access path.

This would have to be a function of the router being used as that is here the path would split. Now that I think of it, there would need to be some additional configuration as part of the CarPlay function (if it is not already doing this). The API being used would need to be able to set the parameters of what are tagged as destined for the SYNC system (outbound) and the Internet/cloud old be set differently (inbound with only approved ACK).

If it is a dual band router, one band could be set for the CarPly function. the other could be set for general WiFi connectivity to the LTE modem. A firewall rule could be setup to allow traffic between the two “networks” for connectivity to specific apps. These apps are already known since they are currently mapped to CarPlay in the Apple IOS settings.

This is outside my capabilities of implementing it, but this is what I feel would need to occur in order to utilize the in-car WiFi for both CarPlay and general device access.


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QoS (quality of service) provisioning/tagging

 

[carymccarr]

I’ll to do some more research. I did not think that deeply into it.

In the IT world, there is something called “split tunneling” where you can direct know traffic down one secure path and all other traffic to another, which is typically an Internet access path.

This would have to be a function of the router being used as that is here the path would split. Now that I think of it, there would need to be some additional configuration as part of the CarPlay function (if it is not already doing this). The API being used would need to be able to set the parameters of what are tagged as destined for the SYNC system (outbound) and the Internet/cloud old be set differently (inbound with only approved ACK).

If it is a dual band router, one band could be set for the CarPly function. the other could be set for general WiFi connectivity to the LTE modem. A firewall rule could be setup to allow traffic between the two “networks” for connectivity to specific apps. These apps are already known since they are currently mapped to CarPlay in the Apple IOS settings.

This is outside my capabilities of implementing it, but this is what I feel would need to occur in order to utilize the in-car WiFi for both CarPlay and general device access.


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Wouldn’t the device also need the capability to be logged into two wifi sources?


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[Lou Hamilton]

QoS (quality of service) provisioning/tagging

Actual ToS (Type of Service) tagging.

QoS would not apply for this application. Most traffic would be best effort. Adding a voice or video tagging would not be a benefit.

 

[Lou Hamilton]

Wouldn’t the device also need the capability to be logged into two wifi sources?


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Not if there was a firewall/ACL letting the two wifi "networks" talk to one another. Putting a rule in place would allow one network (CarPlay) send traffic back and forth to the other network (general in-car wifi).

Although this is a feasible and doable scenario, we are assuming that the engineers would build this and the router being used was "smart" enough to do this level of routing. Not that this is super advanced stuff, I could see car manufacturers using a very cheap device that really only allows basic routing and DHCP allocation.

 

[Fozzy]

The 2021 F-150 looks to have at least what’s playing in the instrument cluster.




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[dlcorbett]

Atleast from the spy photos, the nxt expy will be getting that instrument display. With such positive reception to the f150 and mach e, the new expy(and nav) borrowing some things from them will do wonders for the product as a whole.

 

[carymccarr]

The 2021 F-150 looks to have at least what’s playing in the instrument cluster.




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From ALL sources though? That’s the limitations.


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[MxRacer965]

Anyone tempted to give something like this a try?

https://cplay2air.com/?fbclid=IwAR3...ay_VASU1uAprjrjZb7DFWwJMxzY7NyT7d0UskljYfjT9g

 

[carymccarr]

Anyone tempted to give something like this a try?

https://cplay2air.com/?fbclid=IwAR3...ay_VASU1uAprjrjZb7DFWwJMxzY7NyT7d0UskljYfjT9g

Same issue. It uses wifi so you can’t have your phone connected to in car wifi if you use it I don’t think.

 

[Nalvenin]

I guess the thread spiraled to carplay... I didn't even mention carplay... like i said, my 2015(6yr old) Tahoe had more functionality in the DASH display, not center display then this $70k POJ. And yes, the crappy 160W converter can only run phone chargers, etc.. not even enough for a beefy laptop like mine... ugh!! Step it up Ford...

 

[5280tunage]

I guess the thread spiraled to carplay... I didn't even mention carplay... like i said, my 2015(6yr old) Tahoe had more functionality in the DASH display, not center display then this $70k POJ. And yes, the crappy 160W converter can only run phone chargers, etc.. not even enough for a beefy laptop like mine... ugh!! Step it up Ford...

That's one heck of a laptop, you trying to run an Alienware gaming machine or something? I'd say around 75% of laptops these days use a 90W charger or possibly 110W, especially with so many starting to use USBC charging ports, the port itself can't handle much more than that. The dash is still better than many vehicles but I do agree that I wish it had more customization. I still don't understand why the center portion can't display more than one thing at a time, i.e. show me boost and fuel economy at the same time. There's plenty of screen space. Not that Ford every reads these or cares, but why couldn't they think of it like this. On most Android launchers, you have the ability to use widgets. And the widgets come in many different dimensions, so depending on the phone and screen, you can put multiple widgets on the screen, move them around to organize the screen, etc. Not hard to do!

 

[sjwhiteley]

I guess the thread spiraled to carplay... I didn't even mention carplay... like i said, my 2015(6yr old) Tahoe had more functionality in the DASH display, not center display then this $70k POJ. And yes, the crappy 160W converter can only run phone chargers, etc.. not even enough for a beefy laptop like mine... ugh!! Step it up Ford...

Not trying to be a smartass, but did you not test drive the vehicle? I can understand the limited power output for the DC/AC converter is not something you can easily test (the manual does state 180W), but if there’s something important to you, surely you’d test what it can and cannot do?

 

[Fozzy]

My current Superduty, my old 16’ F-150 had the same thing plus one for the rear seat. They shared the same inverter though. PD ports are where it’s at these days. DC to DC is way more efficient.



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[MxRacer965]

That's one heck of a laptop, you trying to run an Alienware gaming machine or something? I'd say around 75% of laptops these days use a 90W charger or possibly 110W, especially with so many starting to use USBC charging ports, the port itself can't handle much more than that. The dash is still better than many vehicles but I do agree that I wish it had more customization. I still don't understand why the center portion can't display more than one thing at a time, i.e. show me boost and fuel economy at the same time. There's plenty of screen space. Not that Ford every reads these or cares, but why couldn't they think of it like this. On most Android launchers, you have the ability to use widgets. And the widgets come in many different dimensions, so depending on the phone and screen, you can put multiple widgets on the screen, move them around to organize the screen, etc. Not hard to do!

Actually I think most new laptops are 60-65 watts if memory serves. Various Macs are below that as well.