'22 camera issue made worse by dealer and others issues not resolved. . .any advice?

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chaffdb

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We ordered our '22 Limited Max (4X2, 302A, HD Trailer Tow, CCD with Road Preview, Advanced Cargo Manager, Auto Start/Stop Delete) in February of last year and it was delivered in September. Since then, we have put 11k miles on it, and overall we have loved it. The room, performance, ride, capability etc have all been great. The fuel mileage has been slightly less than I was expecting/hoping for, but acceptable considering the towing package and 3.73 gears. However, we did have a few issues that cropped up. All of them were livable, I guess, but not ok considering it's new and expensive, and finally the list got long enough that I decided to take it to my local dealer. Now that feels like it was a major mistake to do so, and I am trying to figure out what to do...

3/21, about 7:30 am - I dropped it off at the dealer for the following:

-smokes on startup, but not using a detectable amount of oil or antifreeze. Didn't think too much about it over the winter, but happened to be parked next to a family member's '18 Expedition Max with 100k miles one it after they had both sat for several hours on a fairly warm day, and we happened to remote start them at almost the exactly same time while walking towards them. Theirs had no perceptible exhaust and ours was puffing white smoke lightly. If it is not oil or antifreeze, I wondered if might be either condensation being retained in exhaust or, my hope, possibly it was running rich, at least on startup, and maybe my fuel mileage might increase a tad if corrected. I'll take some video when we get the vehicle back.

-lag or bog under specific conditions. While it has great power and performance for its size and weight overall, under a very specific condition, it will lag or bog. Say you are approaching a red light and let off the throttle and are coasting. The tach will drop to a normal idle under 1k rpm, and adding throttle at this point causes a normal reaction. However, after a second or two if no throttle is applied and still coasting, the tach drops again to an indicated 400 or so rpm. The engine is still running smoothly. If you give it throttle at just the right time, say the light turns green before you come to a complete stop or whatever, while at this low rpm, nothing happens. It's running so smoothly it feels like it may have died, but it hasn't. The instant reaction is more throttle, causing it eventually take off hard after the small delay. However, if you miss this fairly narrow "window" of low rpm, everything is normal and it accelerates smoothly with throttle input.

-running boards going up too quickly. I asked about the extended timer not appearing to do anything.

-front camera occasionally, and almost exclusively after first start up for the day, gives a message that it needs to be cleaned and that the lane warning/holding and cruise control distance keeping features won't work until cleaned. However, a visible inspection shows nothing on the camera and the view out the front camera looks great, AND the message goes away after some period of time (sometimes a few minutes, sometimes after next start) and everything works fine without ever cleaning anything. This was only occasional but would happen usually once a week or so.
____________________________________________

As an initial note, the dealer never called me until yesterday 4/5. All other communication was by me calling the dealer to inquire and the dates are my best recollection.

3/21 (Tuesday), late in the day - I call and am told - they see the smoking and the issue with the running boards and are contacting Ford. They have ordered a new front camera that will be in Thursday, 3/23. Lag/bog wasn't mentioned.

3/24 (Friday), late it the day - I call and am told they parked ours next to another new one at Ford's suggestion and "they both smoked about the same" so it is considered acceptable, they can't reproduce the lag/bog (I offered to come demonstrate and they ignored this totally), Ford told them both they and I misunderstood the running board timer and it only changes the time the boards are down when unlocked remotely and before the doors are opened, so there is nothing that can be done about them going up and down all the time and, finally, that the replacement front camera didn't work, they have ordered another, and that they put mine back in and I can come get it until a second camera comes in. We go to pick it up after work, and when my wife gets in to leave, the cameras look like this:
Expedition Camera View - 032423.jpg
So the front camera isn't working at all now and is a blue screen, and all of the other cameras are basically unusable. It wasn't raining and it was daylight parked outside the dealership. I checked brightness and looked for any other settings. No idea what they did to rear and side cameras to make them look like this. My wife was particularly upset, as she relies on the cameras for a level of comfort in driving a vehicle significantly larger than anything else she has driven. I talked to them about it and they scrambled to provide us a Ford Flex loaner. I am obviously concerned.

3/28 (Tuesday) - I call again and am told the second camera didn't work and a third camera has been ordered. Of course now I am very concerned. What are the odds and how did they mess up the other cameras?

3/30 (Thursday) - I call and and am told it will be ready tomorrow, 4/1, and they will call me when ready. From this point forward my "service advisor" suddenly became unavailable and I was given to someone else.

3/31 (Friday) - I call late in the day and am told they didn't get it finished but they are open until 3:00 on Saturday and will have it done.

4/1 (Saturday) - I call about 1:00 after changing my plans for the day only to be told the mechanic didn't show up for work and they will have it done Monday, 4/3.

4/3 (Monday) - I called Monday and truthfully don't even remember what I was told at this point. Later in the day, I received an alert that remote features were disabled and the vehicle is going into deep sleep to conserve battery.

4/5 (Wednesday) - I receive a call at 5:36pm that they have some good news and some bad news. They realized that "their system" was giving them the wrong part number and they had been ordering and attempting to install front cameras for an older model and it was not the correct part, so that's why the 3 cameras ordered and tried weren't working. That's the good news. The bad news is cameras for the '22's are back ordered and they don't know when it will come in. But they got mine put back in and I can come pick it up. The only thing is my camera is hazy, they say. I ask which one and I hear the advisor ask someone else. They tell me the rear one. I explain nothing was wrong with that and ask what the front on is doing, and they say well they can't get it to work at all. They confirm all of the others are "hazy" so apparently nothing has changed from the image posted above taken on 3/24.

I called and left a message for the service manager saying I would like to set up a time to go meet with him and so far haven't heard from him. About to call again.

Anyone else have anything like this occur? I sincerely doubt a new front camera is going to all of a sudden make the others work. No idea what they could have done though. I've spoken with Ford and am seriously considering going to another dealer. Of course that means additional hassle, distance, time, etc. Good grief. Wishing I was still just living with the issues like they were before. They didn't fix anything and only made this one much worse.
 
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KetMalice

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22 Expeditions and dealers are a show right now. I will never own another Ford because of this Covid produced car I bought and the way Ford refuses to fix things. Like flat out refuses to warranty an item that’s not at all working, saying all of them do that.
 

99WhiteC5Coupe

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We ordered our '22 Limited Max (4X2, 302A, HD Trailer Tow, CCD with Road Preview, Advanced Cargo Manager, Auto Start/Stop Delete) in February of last year and it was delivered in September. Since then, we have put 11k miles on it, and overall we have loved it. The room, performance, ride, capability etc have all been great. The fuel mileage has been slightly less than I was expecting/hoping for, but acceptable considering the towing package and 3.73 gears. However, we did have a few issues that cropped up. All of them were livable, I guess, but not ok considering it's new and expensive, and finally the list got long enough that I decided to take it to my local dealer. Now that feels like it was a major mistake to do so, and I am trying to figure out what to do...

3/21, about 7:30 am - I dropped it off at the dealer for the following:

-smokes on startup, but not using a detectable amount of oil or antifreeze. Didn't think too much about it over the winter, but happened to be parked next to a family member's '18 Expedition Max with 100k miles one it after they had both sat for several hours on a fairly warm day, and we happened to remote start them at almost the exactly same time while walking towards them. Theirs had no perceptible exhaust and ours was puffing white smoke lightly. If it is not oil or antifreeze, I wondered if might be either condensation being retained in exhaust or, my hope, possibly it was running rich, at least on startup, and maybe my fuel mileage might increase a tad if corrected. I'll take some video when we get the vehicle back.

-lag or bog under specific conditions. While it has great power and performance for its size and weight overall, under a very specific condition, it will lag or bog. Say you are approaching a red light and let off the throttle and are coasting. The tach will drop to a normal idle under 1k rpm, and adding throttle at this point causes a normal reaction. However, after a second or two if no throttle is applied and still coasting, the tach drops again to an indicated 400 or so rpm. The engine is still running smoothly. If you give it throttle at just the right time, say the light turns green before you come to a complete stop or whatever, while at this low rpm, nothing happens. It's running so smoothly it feels like it may have died, but it hasn't. The instant reaction is more throttle, causing it eventually take off hard after the small delay. However, if you miss this fairly narrow "window" of low rpm, everything is normal and it accelerates smoothly with throttle input.

-running boards going up too quickly. I asked about the extended timer not appearing to do anything.

-front camera occasionally, and almost exclusively after first start up for the day, gives a message that it needs to be cleaned and that the lane warning/holding and cruise control distance keeping features won't work until cleaned. However, a visible inspection shows nothing on the camera and the view out the front camera looks great, AND the message goes away after some period of time (sometimes a few minutes, sometimes after next start) and everything works fine without ever cleaning anything. This was only occasional but would happen usually once a week or so.
____________________________________________

As an initial note, the dealer never called me until yesterday 4/5. All other communication was by me calling the dealer to inquire and the dates are my best recollection.

3/21 (Tuesday), late in the day - I call and am told - they see the smoking and the issue with the running boards and are contacting Ford. They have ordered a new front camera that will be in Thursday, 3/23. Lag/bog wasn't mentioned.

3/24 (Friday), late it the day - I call and am told they parked ours next to another new one at Ford's suggestion and "they both smoked about the same" so it is considered acceptable, they can't reproduce the lag/bog (I offered to come demonstrate and they ignored this totally), Ford told them both they and I misunderstood the running board timer and it only changes the time the boards are down when unlocked remotely and before the doors are opened, so there is nothing that can be done about them going up and down all the time and, finally, that the replacement front camera didn't work, they have ordered another, and that they put mine back in and I can come get it until a second camera comes in. We go to pick it up after work, and when my wife gets in to leave, the cameras look like this:
View attachment 77279
So the front camera isn't working at all now and is a blue screen, and all of the other cameras are basically unusable. It wasn't raining and it was daylight parked outside the dealership. I checked brightness and looked for any other settings. No idea what they did to rear and side cameras to make them look like this. My wife was particularly upset, as she relies on the cameras for a level of comfort in driving a vehicle significantly larger than anything else she has driven. I talked to them about it and they scrambled to provide us a Ford Flex loaner. I am obviously concerned.

3/28 (Tuesday) - I call again and am told the second camera didn't work and a third camera has been ordered. Of course now I am very concerned. What are the odds and how did they mess up the other cameras?

3/30 (Thursday) - I call and and am told it will be ready tomorrow, 4/1, and they will call me when ready. From this point forward my "service advisor" suddenly became unavailable and I was given to someone else.

3/31 (Friday) - I call late in the day and am told they didn't get it finished but they are open until 3:00 on Saturday and will have it done.

4/1 (Saturday) - I call about 1:00 after changing my plans for the day only to be told the mechanic didn't show up for work and they will have it done Monday, 4/3.

4/3 (Monday) - I called Monday and truthfully don't even remember what I was told at this point. Later in the day, I received an alert that remote features were disabled and the vehicle is going into deep sleep to conserve battery.

4/5 (Wednesday) - I receive a call at 5:36pm that they have some good news and some bad news. They realized that "their system" was giving them the wrong part number and they had been ordering and attempting to install front cameras for an older model and it was not the correct part, so that's why the 3 cameras ordered and tried weren't working. That's the good news. The bad news is cameras for the '22's are back ordered and they don't know when it will come in. But they got mine put back in and I can come pick it up. The only thing is my camera is hazy, they say. I ask which one and I hear the advisor ask someone else. They tell me the rear one. I explain nothing was wrong with that and ask what the front on is doing, and they say well they can't get it to work at all. They confirm all of the others are "hazy" so apparently nothing has changed from the image posted above taken on 3/24.

I called and left a message for the service manager saying I would like to set up a time to go meet with him and so far haven't heard from him. About to call again.

Anyone else have anything like this occur? I sincerely doubt a new front camera is going to all of a sudden make the others work. No idea what they could have done though. I've spoken with Ford and am seriously considering going to another dealer. Of course that means additional hassle, distance, time, etc. Good grief. Wishing I was still just living with the issues like they were before. They didn't fix anything and only made this one much worse.


Good luck - I wish you well. I suspect you will continue to be frustrated and put-off by the dealer.
'
With a new Ford - be prepared for poor dealer service, backordered parts, lack of concern from Ford and lack of communication from Ford and their authorized dealers.

My 2015 Expedition has been under a Ford safety recall since August 2022 (for the potential for the front HVAC blower motor to catch fire while the vehicle is in operation).

The parts have been backordered for seven+ months. I went to the dealer several days ago and was told Ford has issued another bulletin to the dealers stating it will take at least another three months for the parts.
 
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chaffdb

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Not what I was hoping to hear, obviously! Sorry you both have been having issues.

As a bit of an update, I called and got the service manager this morning shortly after my post above. He apologized for not returning my call but said he had asked the service advisor to pull everything and put it on his desk, but he supposedly had meetings this morning. He said he would look into it and call me back.

He did at 3:21. We discussed the issue and he said he had my vehicle in the shop and witnessed what was going on. He had a new rear camera for it and instructed for it to be installed and asked parts to try and find another dealer with a front camera that would be willing to sell it to them. He said he would call me back after the rear camera was installed.

At 4:19 he called again. He claims the new rear camera has fixed the rear camera and that a front camera has been sourced and is being overnighted. He said the the front and side cameras are still the same, but he thinks the new front camera will fix all of it. I asked "how" and he said when the old model camera(s) were installed, old model software was installed that messed up the other cameras. Not sure I'm buying it, honestly, but he says the rear one is working and the front should be delivered by 10am tomorrow and they will have us ready to go. Will update once something else happens.
 
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chaffdb

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Well, got a call a little after lunch that it was fixed and they were cleaning it up for me since it had finger prints on the front and back from replacing the cameras. Still not clear why the rear one had to be replaced, but it appears the cameras are working now. Will see if the intermittent issue related to lane keeping and cruise control comes back over the next few days/weeks. Hate I had to get the service manager involved, but glad that seemed to get some things done.
 

TonyR0206

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I hope you get everything resolved. There is nothing more frustrating than spending a lot of money on a vehicle and then having non-stop issues with it. I owned a 2017 Yukon Denali that I had so many issues with, that I traded it in after only six months of ownership. It was a lemon in every conceivable way. LOL

Don't feel bad getting the service manager involved. Sometimes it is a necessity. After I took delivery of my 2022 Expedition, I realized it was missing a rubber trim piece that keeps the phone in place for wireless charging. Without the trim piece the phone would slide off the charger, making this a useless option. In speaking with my salesperson, he was supposed to get me a new one and mail it to me. (the dealership is 3 hrs from my house) Long story short, I tried following up with him after two weeks. He was completely non-responsive to any emails, texts or phone calls. I ended up emailing the sales manager, and copying the owner of the dealership, who's email I found on the website. My issue was resolved immediately. I received an email from the sales manager and had the part in my mailbox two days later. All this BS for a $10 rubber trim piece.
 
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chaffdb

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Thanks, and I agree.

It's been almost a week, but so far we have not not had any occasions or issues with the cruise/lane keeping being unavailable or the front camera saying it needs to be cleaned. It hasn't been cold, but it has been cooler at times (40's and 50's) during the week and we have had some rain and humidity, so maybe that issue has been taken care of. All cameras are operating normally again otherwise as they were before taking it in.

As for the lag or bog, I'll admit I wasn't able to duplicate it easily, either, even though nothing was supposedly done to correct it. Maybe it wasn't as prevalent as I thought, but both my wife and I have experienced it, so this is still up in the air.

It still smokes upon initial start up and for a while, but it does go away when fully warmed up. I'm going to monitor this and takes some photos and/or video and upload them in another thread.

We are glad to have it back and enjoying again though overall.
 

ManUpOrShutUp

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We faced so many challenges with the dealer, but the main theme was them always pretending there was nothing wrong while not listening to anything we told them.

This was my experience with multiple dealers. I did, eventually, get most of it fixed while I was under warranty with the exception of my climate controlled seats. It all came to a head when the operations manager told me that his buddy had an Expedition just like mine and he was going to prove to me that my seats were working fine by parking them side-by-side and checking them with a temp gun. He stood there frantically pulling the trigger and pointing it at every part of the seat, but there was a 12-15 degree difference in seat temps between the 2 trucks at the same settings. I asked if he was going to take mine back into the shop now that he had his proof and he said: "No, we're done with this. We did all we're going to do and it is what it is. It's working as intended." Then he walked off and that was that.
 

expeditiondriver

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This was my experience with multiple dealers. I did, eventually, get most of it fixed while I was under warranty with the exception of my climate controlled seats. It all came to a head when the operations manager told me that his buddy had an Expedition just like mine and he was going to prove to me that my seats were working fine by parking them side-by-side and checking them with a temp gun. He stood there frantically pulling the trigger and pointing it at every part of the seat, but there was a 12-15 degree difference in seat temps between the 2 trucks at the same settings. I asked if he was going to take mine back into the shop now that he had his proof and he said: "No, we're done with this. We did all we're going to do and it is what it is. It's working as intended." Then he walked off and that was that.

Yeah, sounds about right.
 
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