6000lbs tow capacity seems under rated!

[Trey Salsbury]

I have 19’ exp w/o the max tow package and it seems like it only tows 6000? I came from a Grand Cherokee v6 that towed 6500lbs. For the life of me I can’t figure out why this full size SUV can only tow 6k.

I watched a YouTube video where a guy without the max tow was pulling a 7500lbs enclosed trailer with car inside. The truck seems to handle it just fine. Any thoughts ?

 

[Zig10]

Tow package includes a deeper rear end and higher capacity cooling system. Might have bigger brakes, too, but I don't know that for sure.

These engines put out a ton of heat, and if you don't manage that it'll have a very short lifespan.

It'll likely survive just fine if you stay on flat ground, but if you're going to be climbing hills or pulling at high speeds it'll start to show up in a hurry.

 

[theoneneo]

I think the suv will handle it fine depending on how over weight you are. I would not go long distance if I’m over weight. I personally would not tow more than the limit. Other factors to consider other than weight are: length and trailer braking system.

On the heavy duty package, you get bigger radiator, 3.73diff, backup assist, brake controller, and two speed auto 4wd.
The first two items on the package helps relieve stress on the engine and transmission from towing.

Is it legal? That is another topic.


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[Trey Salsbury]

Thanks for the reply's. I wanted to confirm towing is only 6000? I've googled it have also seen 6500lbs.

 

[NyackRob79]

One word - heat dissipation. Towing 6000lb up a long hill will cause the engine to overheat with current light-duty radiator. HD Tow Package upgrades the radiator to dissipate that heat.

Why do they put a light duty radiator in the stock Expy, you ask? Cost, entry price point, and the fact that most people that drive an Expy (families) buy it for hauling people, not boats.

 

[Trey Salsbury]

Almost seems like price point is out the window at the price they get for these vehicles. Logically when you buy a “half ton pick up “you would expect to get more towing than that. I was just wondering if the consensus thinks they are under rating it in hopes that people will be forced to buy the $1500 heavy duty package?

 

[JExpedition07]

One word - heat dissipation. Towing 6000lb up a long hill will cause the engine to overheat with current light-duty radiator. HD Tow Package upgrades the radiator to dissipate that heat.

Why do they put a light duty radiator in the stock Expy, you ask? Cost, entry price point, and the fact that most people that drive an Expy (families) buy it for hauling people, not boats.

excuse me sir that is two words

 

[grumpyoleman]

excuse me sir that is two words

I think what he meant to say was heatdissipation.

there ya' go ... one word.

 

[Expedition Dave]

Most modern cars/trucks are basically overbuilt for "that guy/gal" doing Mach 9 in the left lane, on 44 inch mudders, full of pregnant kids, carrying ice, concrete, sand, and towing the Nimitz on a 190 degree day, rolling 82 octane up-hill and two quarts low on oil...

But the auto manufacturers want their vehicles to last, so they limit their limitations for longevity and things you do they don't want you to do to keep lawyers, dealers, and you happy. The difference between the tow package and not the tow package is wrought with just enough to make the 3K pounds difference, but there are a lot of things the Expedition can do beyond it's spec sheets, but you begin to roam into uncharted territories where lawyers, insurance companies, state troopers, mechanics, and service managers swim...

Common sense (which is not common anymore) and the ECU management "limp home" mode may vary (YMMV).

 

[Expedition Dave]

As a more serious follow-up, for a variety of reasons (which I am not sure of), the transmission cooler is buried within the radiator in the HD package (fellow car gurus here correct me if I misread an previous postings). We here don't even know if it is prudent/possible to "tap"" the 10-spd to add an additional oil cooler like in 'ye olden days to help cool the transmission.

But it is clear if you tow heavy/hot here and on F150 forums, the 10-spd trans temps easily get to around 240-250 (IIRC).

Heat=transmission fluid breakdown=trans early death.

TTBOMK, there is currently no easy, or cheap answer as far as lower gears, bigger radiators, more fans, louvered hoods, etc. existing at this juncture if you want to tow heavy w/o the HD tow pack.

But the difference from towing at 55mph down from 75mph is huge, or whether it is winter or summer, to even selecting the right gear to the best RPMs all these things play a factor.

YMMV

 

[Fozzy]

As a more serious follow-up, for a variety of reasons (which I am not sure of), the transmission cooler is buried within the radiator in the HD package (fellow car gurus here correct me if I misread an previous postings). We here don't even know if it is prudent/possible to "tap"" the 10-spd to add an additional oil cooler like in 'ye olden days to help cool the transmission.

But it is clear if you tow heavy/hot here and on F150 forums, the 10-spd trans temps easily get to around 240-250 (IIRC).

Heat=transmission fluid breakdown=trans early death.

TTBOMK, there is currently no easy, or cheap answer as far as lower gears, bigger radiators, more fans, louvered hoods, etc. existing at this juncture if you want to tow heavy w/o the HD tow pack.

But the difference from towing at 55mph down from 75mph is huge, or whether it is winter or summer, to even selecting the right gear to the best RPMs all these things play a factor.

YMMV

You won’t be cooking the Trans Oil. Those temps are well within range. And the Ecoboost derates at 250 water temp.

Ford is pretty crazy on their tow package names. Max tow vs HD tow. I almost made the same mistake on a F-150. One of their names just means you get the reinforced rear bumper for a bolt on ball and no trailer brake controller. Ford could do better and so could their sales team on making it clear to the customer.



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[Expedition Dave]

Foz, i guess I was trying to say those temps are higher than most like here even with the HD tow. And FWIW Ford considers 215 degrees to be the height of "normal" though many routinely see 220 degrees. That chart lists the last viscosity rating at 212 degrees F and the flash point of 370 degrees is when the fluid will ignite.

To date, I can't find what are "bad" 10 spd temps so I hesitate to even suggest it here despite having some good guess based upon my old racing days.

 

[Tmg115]

I'm another believer that 6k is way too low for a full size suv. The 3.5 F150 is up to over 12k towing. I feel ford should make the expedition close to that range. Just because these engines run hot does not mean we can't have large cooling systems. The only hurdle I see with the tow rating is the independent rear suspension not being able to handle high weight.

Or........ Ford should bring back the excursion. I would sell my 2500 chevy and expedition in a heart beat for a new excursion.

 

[JExpedition07]

Heat is the single biggest killer of transmissions and engines, one the most important things for towing is proper heat dissipation. 250 Fahrenheit will kill your transmission in a matter of 2 minutes, that fluid will be breaking down fast. My current ‘07 has the Heavy Duty trailer tow package, my last Expedition did not. The bigger trans cooler, bigger radiator, 7 pin hookup, trailer brake controller etc are all extra costs someone may not want to incur if they won’t use it to tow so it’s not standard. They try and keep the price down. 3rd gens without the option also rated for 6,000 pounds, and 9,200 pounds with it. Still need bars when you get past 600 tongue weight. The F-150 really can‘t tow 13,000 pounds like the ads say, try it! It can accelerate ok but beyond that the handling just isn’t there, the braking and control are sub-par for that load. You will be much more comfortable in a 3/4 ton with the longer wheelbase, stouter springs, bigger brakes, and big displacement V8 (engine braking). The 3/4 ton works less and runs cooler.....and the camper or whatever 32’ trailer back there isn’t a tail wagging the dog.

 

[Fozzy]

Foz, i guess I was trying to say those temps are higher than most like here even with the HD tow. And FWIW Ford considers 215 degrees to be the height of "normal" though many routinely see 220 degrees. That chart lists the last viscosity rating at 212 degrees F and the flash point of 370 degrees is when the fluid will ignite.

To date, I can't find what are "bad" 10 spd temps so I hesitate to even suggest it here despite having some good guess based upon my old racing days.

It runs hot compared to the 6R80 that I never had any overheating problems with. Add the fact that it only uses the coolant to cool the transmission. In theory you would heat soak the radiator and be shut down by the engine temp way before you burnt the Trans oil. But the big question for people with the overheating problem is if the Trans overheating the engine or an engine problem. I have towed 6K in 116* temps up grades without overheating. It’s been pretty high 240’s on both. I have mine set to constantly see the engine and Trans temp and it is very interesting watching them jump up and down in sync and independently. I have not seen any advantages of the 10 speed over my old 6. Same towing, mileage with a similar set up.


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[NyackRob79]

Tow capacity takes into account worst possible scenario. i.e. towing a 10k trailer up a long mountain road in 100 degree Arizona heat. If you tow on a fairly level highway in cool temperatures, you'll be fine.

 

[JTAZ]

Currently towing a travel trailer loaded and around 7,000lbs in our platinum max w/heavy duty tow package for the first time. Watching the trans hit 247 degrees Fahrenheit at the highest climbing the mountains of northern Arizona in 92 degree temps. A little concerning since we’re still under the max capacity and it’s not as hot as the AZ summer high temps but the gauge never went into the yellow or red bars on the far right even though it was almost there. It’s hovering around 230-240 climbing but creeps up on a long hill.

I’m pushing to keep around 55-60mph, so I’m sure going a little slower could keep the temps lower, but that’s why I wanted the tow package.

Reassuring to know others are seeing higher temps on tows also.

 

[LovinPSDs]

Currently towing a travel trailer loaded and around 7,000lbs in our platinum max w/heavy duty tow package for the first time. Watching the trans hit 247 degrees Fahrenheit at the highest climbing the mountains of northern Arizona in 92 degree temps. A little concerning since we’re still under the max capacity and it’s not as hot as the AZ summer high temps but the gauge never went into the yellow or red bars on the far right even though it was almost there. It’s hovering around 230-240 climbing but creeps up on a long hill.

I’m pushing to keep around 55-60mph, so I’m sure going a little slower could keep the temps lower, but that’s why I wanted the tow package.

Reassuring to know others are seeing higher temps on tows also.

Did you manually downshift to bring the RPM up some or did you let the computer do it's thing?

 

[JTAZ]

Did you manually downshift to bring the RPM up some or did you let the computer do it's thing?

The computer didn’t do a great job downshifting, felt like it was just holding on to the gear with turbos spun up but losing speed. Had to go manual a few times to click it down a gear.

 

[Matt Marshall]

Thanks for the reply's. I wanted to confirm towing is only 6000? I've googled it have also seen 6500lbs.

The 2019 towing guide says 6,000 lbs. for standard tow package on Expedition 4x2 and 4x4 and on Expedition Max 4x4. It gives a rating of 6,300 lbs. for standard tow package on Expedition Max 4x2.

But, FWIW, the latest published tech spec for the 2019 Expedition w/ standard tow package puts max trailer weight at 6,600 lbs. for the Expedition 4x2 and 4x4 and for the Expedition Max 4x4. It gives a 6,500 max trailer weight for Expedition Max 4x2 w/ standard tow package. You can find these details at the bottom of page 3 of the attached 2019 tech spec.

Why the difference b/w these two docs published by Ford? I don't know... but it does create confusion.

(FYI I'm attaching the latest published tech spec from Ford. I just downloaded it today).