Adjustable Pedals

[R W Carpenter]

So I tried to adjust my pedals in my '06 Limited today so I could get under the dash and they wouldn't move. The actuator clicks when you press the button up or down but the pedals won't move?

Wondering if anyone has any ideas before I start shelling out money for parts.

 

[Bain64]

Yes, there is a plastic gear that commonly breaks, someone created a brass upgrade and was selling it some years ago.. You might confirm the problem, and then see if Curless Auto is still selling the upgraded gears. https://www.facebook.com/pg/Curless...51/photos/?tab=album&album_id=752557081436804

 

[Bain64]

Also, see here

 

[R W Carpenter]

Curless Auto still sells the upgraded gears. Spoke with them last night via chat. The have 13 in stock and they are selling for $90.00 shipping included.

Going to go out and pull the cover off and verify that this is the issue I have.

 

[R W Carpenter]

Yes, there is a plastic gear that commonly breaks, someone created a brass upgrade and was selling it some years ago.. You might confirm the problem, and then see if Curless Auto is still selling the upgraded gears. https://www.facebook.com/pg/Curless...51/photos/?tab=album&album_id=752557081436804

I am guessing yes, but would the broken gear on the brake pedal also cause the gas pedal to not adjust?

 

[R W Carpenter]

Took the cover off and just as you all suspected...... The gear is broken. Going to get up with Curless Auto and get a gear. I may even get adventurous and do a video of the swap.
Stay tuned.

 

[R W Carpenter]

So, after doing the inspection of the gear, I put everything back together and now my cruise control won't work? Any body have any ideas about that? I am thinking that I may have adjusted the break pedal to far in the wrong direction and its not activating the switch that allows the cruise to come on?

Any ideas would be appreciated once again. I tried the KOEO self diagnostic and it wont go into diagnostic mode either. The only thing electrical that I unplugged during the gear inspection was the brake light / shift lock switch and they both work as they should.

 

[Bain64]

So, after doing the inspection of the gear, I put everything back together and now my cruise control won't work? Any body have any ideas about that?

Brake lights still operable? Any other steering wheel controls to test, are they all inop? Check the fuse?

 

[R W Carpenter]

brake lights still operable, and all other steering wheel controls are operational. Don't know which fuses to check. Also, have tried two different methods of running manual diagnostics. One from here and one I found online. Neither one worked as written. Tried those on both of the 06 Expys I have.

 

[Bain64]

Dirty switches? Was it intermittent before? http://www.expeditionforum.com/threads/steering-wheel-audio-cruise-button-fix.31073/

 

[R W Carpenter]

Switches had previously been cleaned and all worked great before doing the exploratory surgery on the pedal adjuster.

 

[1955moose]

Sounds like when you did your pedals, you either broke, or messed with the brake switch. The cruise has got to have a functioning switch to deactivate cruise. Bedrck mentioned something about 2 set of contacts in the brake switch, 1 for the lights, and the other for the cruise. Maybe he or Stamp can chime in to confirm. As far as fuse, if you disconnected battery before repairs, hope you did, shouldn't have shorted anything.

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[R W Carpenter]

So, I got to thinking and I decided to bypass the cruise disconnect switch by unplugging it and putting a jumper wire in. It did the trick. I took the truck for a test drive and the cruise control functioned like it was supposed to. What I wasn't prepared for was that the cruise control actually disconnected when I pressed the brake pedal. I thought that was the whole point of the disconnect switch. I am an electrician for a living and if you apply logic to the situation and think about the setup of the switch and how it works pressing the brake pedal shouldn't disconnect the cruise control with the jumper in place. Here's why:

1: When the brake pedal is not depressed, the plunger on the disconnect switch is pushed in thus closing the switch. This sllows the cruise control to be set.
2: When you depress the brake pedal, the plunger moves out, opens the switch and the cruise control (should) disengage.
3: With the jumper in place in the plug, the computer on the truck should see the system as the plunger being pushed in and therefore, the only way you should be able to disconnect the cruise control would be via the steering wheel controls.

I have a new switch on order from Rock Auto. Should be here sometime next week. Once I get it installed and plugged in, I will update everyone here as to how things turn out.

 

[deweysmith]

With the jumper in place in the plug, the computer on the truck should see the system as the plunger being pushed in and therefore, the only way you should be able to disconnect the cruise control would be via the steering wheel controls.

This is logical, but you're forgetting something. There are two switches, one for up, and one for down. The PCM only allows cruise to be set when the BCM sees the circuit on the up switch is closed. The BCM also controls the brake lights, and uses the other switch (the down switch) for the lights. Logically, if the up switch is closed, but the down switch is also closed, something fishy is going on, but it doesn't disable cruise altogether. There is probably a DTC in the computer if you can read them from the BCM.

The PCM probably reacts to this weird situation of the pedal being simultaneously up and down by reacting to the pedal being down first. This would illuminate brake lights and limit/disallow throttle input, probably. This probably also deactivates cruise, though I doubt there is a specific check in the software that deactivates cruise control in a "Schrodinger's pedal" situation (the pedal is both up and down).

If you remember, Toyota had a similar issue that ended up killing people. The electronic throttle control didn't limit or stop throttle input while the brake pedal was pressed, and also occasionally opened the throttle all the way for no reason (or because the floor mat held the accelerator down).

I work in software (and dabble in embedded systems) and these kind of weird situations are hard ones to think about, but it's super interesting to me, and what I do at work every day.

 

[R W Carpenter]

This is logical, but you're forgetting something. There are two switches, one for up, and one for down. The PCM only allows cruise to be set when the BCM sees the circuit on the up switch is closed. The BCM also controls the brake lights, and uses the other switch (the down switch) for the lights. Logically, if the up switch is closed, but the down switch is also closed, something fishy is going on, but it doesn't disable cruise altogether. There is probably a DTC in the computer if you can read them from the BCM.

The PCM probably reacts to this weird situation of the pedal being simultaneously up and down by reacting to the pedal being down first. This would illuminate brake lights and limit/disallow throttle input, probably. This probably also deactivates cruise, though I doubt there is a specific check in the software that deactivates cruise control in a "Schrodinger's pedal" situation (the pedal is both up and down).

If you remember, Toyota had a similar issue that ended up killing people. The electronic throttle control didn't limit or stop throttle input while the brake pedal was pressed, and also occasionally opened the throttle all the way for no reason (or because the floor mat held the accelerator down).

I work in software (and dabble in embedded systems) and these kind of weird situations are hard ones to think about, but it's super interesting to me, and what I do at work every day.

I am hoping that the new disconnect switch solves the issue. If things go back to the way they were i think my next step will be the other switch.

I could be wrong but i don't think its a software issue. My line of thinking is that if were a software issue it wouldn't work jumpered either.

I wiil update the thread once i get the new disconnect switch installed.

 

[deweysmith]

Yeah, I agree, I didn't mean to sound like it was a software issue, just that there's lots more going on in the computer than we think about, usually. Sure, the cruise control module is only set to react to the brake pedal moving from up, but that doesn't mean that the PCM or a BCM can't send a "cruise control off" message when it clicks on the brake lights.

They're immensely complex machines, that's one of the things that got Toyota in so much trouble. That and really terrible programming/software development practices.

 

[R W Carpenter]

I had considered a newer Expy when I was shopping. I love all of the new featurs but they are so computer ceitical these days and i dont think i would be able to work on a newer one. I like to do alot of my own monkey wrenching whenever possible. Shop rates tjese tays are out of this world. Getting harder and harder for us shade tree mechanics to work on our own sruff.

 

[deweysmith]

Have you read much about FORScan? That's one thing I'm really excited about, being able to tweak the computers. There's a huge, really involved community around it too.

 

[R W Carpenter]

Have you read much about FORScan? That's one thing I'm really excited about, being able to tweak the computers. There's a huge, really involved community around it too.

I have heard of it but I farted too expensive to get the software and whatever you got to plug into the truck to make it work. On topOn top of that I think I would be scared to mess with anything cuz I wouldn't know what I was doing

 

[1955moose]

Like Clint says, man's got to know his limitations! I know what you mean. Some things I do down to the letter, others I just want to diagnose, and fix as easy as possible. When I wrenched full time year's back, I kept working spares, like Gm hei modules, voltage regulators, coils, etc. I had a whole drawer in my box with working spares.The one thing I loved about working at a dealer, was you'd get your diagnosis down to an item, go to parts dept, grab it, and if you weren't 100 percent, right you didn't have egg On your face! You'd continue on, with additional diagnostic , until you did fix issue. As we all read on this forum, not the same issue, requires the same fix. Engine misfire is a classic example we get day in/out, each one is different. One guy needs a coil, another a harness, another has a motor issue. It's what keeps this fun!

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