Buying a 3rd gen, what year is best?

[m3olsen]

Curious how the V6 Ecoboost tows 5000-6000 lbs? Does it do as good as the V8?

Should do better. More power and torque.

We love our 2012 but it will likely be the last one we own with the V8.

@rollinstone ,completed agreed with @sjwelds . Many We Americans have a stigma against V6's, but with twin turbos that don't have the lag of eons ago, an EB vs V8 Gen 3 is lighter, has more HP, more torque, AND has a much much flatter power curves than the V8. You get most of your torque from ~1500 RPM all the way up past 5K RPM. INCREDIBLE difference for me going from one to the other.

You lose some cool factor on engine and exhaust sound, but it's am impressive package if/ when you get past it.

I also found the trans programming to be hugely improved on my 2017, but I was going from an 08 so maybe they figured it out in between. The 08 was maddening to try and keep it from screaming RPMs when going up hills and just do the damn upshift - it had the power. Anyway, that was years ago...

 

[mr_dave]

Main difference as everyone noted is between the 5.4L v8 and 3.5L v6 twin turbo as well as exterior styling. Some items I'd like to point out:

- If you go with the 5.4L, I'd recommend only looking at probably 2012 - 2014 models as they would have all the latest updates that were very problematic in older engines. Most notably redesigned heads so spark plugs don't break and updated cam phasers. I'm not sure exactly what years those changes took place but Ford was done with the 5.4L in the F150 as of 2012.

- The 3.5L twin turbo v6 has great power and better efficiency, however it still has (some) cam phaser issues and is direct injected only in the 3rd gen Expeditions, of which I'm not a fan.

- Both models have the very good 6r80 6-speed transmission.

 

[Tom Tulloch]

2014GreyFord - Since I own a 2017 Expedition Limited and this being my first Ford in my adult life and first ever turbo, I'd be interested in more details on your comment about some treating their EcoBoost engines "like they were naturally aspirated". What would your recommendations be for maintenance and/or driving style with these engines and why?

 

[MidnightBruce]

I have owned my 2016 XLT EL for 4 years and 50k miles (currently 95k) and we love it, however here are some things that I have noted.

I did drill the 1/64” hole in the cold side lowest point of the intercooler to help weep moisture build up and I never get any issues when mashing the throttle (no boost leak issues). I do get the EB cold start rattle when it gets below 45* and sits overnight. Did a filter and fluid drain on the trans at 60k and a S&B panel filter in the intake. Spark plugs at 60k also and gapped to 0.028. that made a difference. Greased the slip joint on the driveshaft. The A/C in the rear never gets cold enough during the summer, but that could be the system needs to be vacuumed and recharged. Just updated the brakes using the full power stop front and rear slotted/drilled rotors with the extreme pads and 2 new front calipers (I ripped a piston boot on the old ones and 1 had a seized slide). Stops like a dream! Huge difference as I had no faith in repeat hard stops with the old brakes. 0 fade with this kit (under $600 on Amazon). Upgraded to 2021 F150 sport rims 20x8.5 275/60/20 and it looks and rides the best it ever has. This also has the tow package with 3.73 gears and I would never have anything less. Holeshot is amazing with this tank!

Outside of those basic things, it's my wife's car and it's been very reliable. I trust my entire family in this beast! 3.5 EB has been my fave motor. Had a 08' F150 with 5.4 and that was also a great motor. So either way you can't go wrong.

 

[mr_dave]

2014GreyFord - Since I own a 2017 Expedition Limited and this being my first Ford in my adult life and first ever turbo, I'd be interested in more details on your comment about some treating their EcoBoost engines "like they were naturally aspirated". What would your recommendations be for maintenance and/or driving style with these engines and why?

I haven't owned an Ecoboost but have owned at least 3 other turbocharged engines. The main thing is that turbos are much harder on engine oil with higher temperatures and contaminates so I would only use full synthetic and a max 5k mile interval. Other things would be:

- stay out of boost until the oil reaches full operating temperature
- before shutting off the engine do a "cool down," if it was driven hard
- I'm not sure what octane Ford recommends for the EB, but in general turbo engines love higher octanes, if not specifically require it
- spark plugs wear out much faster and it's much more sensitive to plug quality, gap, type, etc.
- turbos suck in a LOT more air so replace the intake filter often
- One more thing for the early EB engines specifically, I believe are all Direct Injected, which means potential carbon buildup issues. I haven't put much research into it but if I owned one my inclination would be to install a water/methanol injection system for multiple benefits, one of which being a clean(er) intake manifold.

Other than that enjoy the excellent powerband and better fuel economy! If you don't mind the extra care, turbos are great.

 

[2014greyford665]

Can you elaborate a bit on what exactly that means? Not trying to be pedantic, just asking as the owner of a 2017 Ltd with an EB engine and would like to ensure that I do not inadvertently fall into that category.

Simply, Turbocharged-engine cars should be treated a little differently than naturally aspirated {change the oil a little early, try to have a colder foot on them, never turn them off immediately after a long ride (to cool the turbos)....etc}

 

[2014greyford665]

Found some sources that may guide you:

6 Ways to Protect Your Turbo Engine | Redex

In this guide, we look at six ways to protect your car's turbo engine from harmful wear and tear, including maintenance advice and driving tips.

www.holtsauto.com

Turbo driving tips – get more from your turbocharged car and protect your engine - AET Turbos

We take a look at 5 turbo driving and maintenance tips to ensure you get more from your turbocharged car and protect your engine.

aet-turbos.co.uk

https://turboturbos.com/blogs/news/how-to-make-your-turbocharger-last-longer

I have a’17 4WD. I’ve never seen anything about operating turbo‘d engine cars differently than NA ones but can believe you should. Where can I learn more about best practices for turbo cars?

 

[BigTex68]

New Expedition owner here, daily driver is a 2000 F250. Your budget will control to a large degree which years you have to choose from. Big price jumps as you move into the mid-teens and newer. Not wanting to spend over $5k for a 4th vehicle that would be used sparingly to tow, I found a 2010 Limited EL in the "sparkly black" color (I'm sure ford didn't call it that) with chrome wheels, a clean leather interior, and 200k miles. Every switch, button, and handle work. The 5.4 runs like a dream and idles so smooth I have to look at the tach to be sure its on. 18 on the highway, 14 in town on 87 octane, with the option of E85 if you choose. I drove several other Expeditions and Navigators in the search, and I can say they all drove well for the most part. Some just were a little rougher around the edges. The only thing I feel needs to be replaced is the steering gearbox, as I do have about 4-6 degrees of play in my steering center at highway speeds. Causes some uneasiness at times. I would just tighten the steering gearbox adjustment screw, but it doesn't have one. Older Expeditions do. I'll just install a new steering gearbox, about a $300 part. My F250, with 250k, has not yet developed this issue, so YMMV. This Expedition was serviced with synthetic oil every 3k and had service records. I think I can easily get another 100K out of her! The guy at the carwash thought it was new, and I just ordered a 10" android touchscreen for it with wireless Car Play & Android Auto. I'm looking forward to many more years of enjoyment! If your budget is under $10k, look at 2009-2012. You should find lots of interesting options!

 

[rollinstone]

Good find! Mine is a 2014 LTD with full tow package. Coming up on 76k. Love how it tows. Sparkly grey… One of the selling points was the automatic 3rd row fold down seats.

 

[BigTex68]

As a pinball collector, the EL really impressed me with how much it could hold. Turns out if you fold down both back rows, you can fit two in the rear and a third sideways over the 2nd row. Considering the Escalade can't even hold one unless you turn it on its side (not enough height clearance), that's a very impressive feat!

 

[Goldnpaw]

Just a follow up on my previous post. My 2017 now has 78k miles. I had the spark plugs changed cleaned fuel injectors and had the mechanic put a scope into two cylinders to see the tops of the valves. Spotless. Zero carbon! I have always run 92/93 octane and use full synthetic oil since new. No holes drilled, the engine purrs like a kitten and moves (when I need it to) like a cheetah when I need it to. 3.73 rear end gives me faster off the line quickness vs 3.21 trans. Towing? Smooth, plenty of power, handles the 9000 lbs I put on it a few years ago.

 

[chuck s]

I'll be surprised if there any bad years.

I've owned two Gen 3 XLT Expeditions, a 2007 (175,000 miles) and currently a 2017 (35,000 miles). Both years are competent tow vehicles for my 6000 pound travel trailer (the only reason I own a large SUV) so I assume all Gen 3s are. Other than the engine and axles (and some fluff on the dashboard) the vehicles are nearly identical including color. I've essentially been driving the same SUV for 16 years. The 3.5 EB engine is superior to the 5.4 V8 in all respects.

Nothing but routine, scheduled maintenance for them both.

My statistically insignificant sample of two (2).

-- Chuck

 

[bman440440]

I know this is an old thread but is there any new info on the 2015-2017's I should be aware of? I'm looking at selling my 08 and going turbo.

 

[GlennSullivan]

By going turbo, you are saying a 2015, 2016 or 2017, correct?

 

[bman440440]

By going turbo, you are saying a 2015, 2016 or 2017, correct?

that is correct

 

[GlennSullivan]

I have a 2017 which has been generally a good vehicle.

Since these are T/T engines with Ford VVT system, I believe regular oil and filter changes are needed. I change the oil / filter in our 2011 and 2017 every 3500 - 4000 miles with full synthetic. You should attempt to determine how well the vehicle was maintained. If dealer serviced, a Ford OASIS report should give you maintenance history.

There are a number of recalls that you should make sure are completed:
Brake master cylinder: 2 recalls 1st in 2018 or so, the second 2025 (25S37) which as of today a remedy is not yet available.
HVAC blower motor: I never had an issue, but did the recall anyway. Many people report also needing the resister wire which is not included in the recall and if done by dealer can be around $1000.

Non Recalls, but still problems
Battery terminal leakage - especially on 2017. Leaks acid and destroys positive battery terminal.
Electronic throttle body. If the truck you want has not had the TB changed, just do it, or buy the TB and carry it and tools with you.

All Gen 3 Expeditions have front rotor warpage. I've had 3 and all had it. If OEM and not cut before, you can true them up or just replace them with high quality rotors.

Some people have also had issues with the Lead Frame in the 6R80 trans, I have not. Fix at a Ford dealer could be $900 to $1500. not super expensive (compared to a transmission). but still an expense.

 

[GlennSullivan]

I have a 2017 which has been generally a good vehicle.

Since these are T/T engines with Ford VVT system, I believe regular oil and filter changes are needed. I change the oil / filter in our 2011 and 2017 every 3500 - 4000 miles with full synthetic. You should attempt to determine how well the vehicle was maintained. If dealer serviced, a Ford OASIS report should give you maintenance history.

There are a number of recalls that you should make sure are completed:
Brake master cylinder: 2 recalls 1st in 2018 or so, the second 2025 (25S37) which as of today a remedy is not yet available.
HVAC blower motor: I never had an issue, but did the recall anyway. Many people report also needing the resister wire which is not included in the recall and if done by dealer can be around $1000.

Non Recalls, but still problems
Battery terminal leakage - especially on 2017. Leaks acid and destroys positive battery terminal.
Electronic throttle body. If the truck you want has not had the TB changed, just do it, or buy the TB and carry it and tools with you.

All Gen 3 Expeditions have front rotor warpage. I've had 3 and all had it. If OEM and not cut before, you can true them up or just replace them with high quality rotors.

Some people have also had issues with the Lead Frame in the 6R80 trans, I have not. Fix at a Ford dealer could be $900 to $1500. not super expensive (compared to a transmission). but still an expense.

Oh and towing is another thing to consider. If you are going to tow, make sure the vehicle has the HD tow package - All 15 16 17 limited and Platinum have it included, XL and XLT were optional. with the power of the 3.5 TT, I don't think you have to worry about axle ratios. My 2017 has 3.31 and tows 6500lbs with no problem and gets great mileage (20+) when not towing. I think if you got 3.73 axle towing heavier would be easier but everyday mileage may suffer.

 

[chuck s]

My 2017 has 3.31 and tows 6500lbs with no problem and gets great mileage (20+) when not towing.

Just like my 2017 XLT pulling the same weight camper. HD Tow always included the 3.73LS axles before and after 2017. I don't miss them at all. In fact I never noticed until I checked the axle code for some some unremembered reason.

-- Chuck

 

[GlennSullivan]

Just like my 2017 XLT pulling the same weight camper. HD Tow always included the 3.73LS axles before and after 2017. I don't miss them at all. In fact I never noticed until I checked the axle code for some some unremembered reason.

-- Chuck

Not true about only 3.73 LS with HDTow. I have 2017, 2014 and 2011 HD Tow with 3.31 Non LS. Google “2017 Expedition Towing Guide” related portion shown below.