Cam Phaser issue scaring me from buying

[X expat]

Hi, I just joined.

For some time now I've been planning to upgrade our tow vehicle, a 2006 120K mi. Armada 9000lbs tow capacity with a new Expedition with HD tow package.

But now I'm reading here about this unresolved cam phaser issue. As you see, we keep our vehicles a long time.

We have no use for a p/u truck and want to stay with an SUV.

But with this issue, should I look elsewhere? Obviously it's the folks that have had this problem that chime in on the cam phaser threads. But how universal is it? Is it bound to happen at high millage, or even before?

Thanks for any input
Paul

 

[Deadman]

There's millions of them that have never been touched. I wouldn't worry about them as long as you get a 2020 you will be past the new parts date.

 

[Mac Attack]

If you go on the Raptor forum there is a survey of engine failures (not just inclusive of cam phaser issues). It appears that a third of those folks have had issues. Keep in mind forums usually attract the extreme vehicle lovers/haters so you're just seeing a small sampling of the population.

I certainly feel sorry for those that do have this issue, but of myself and three neighborhood friends that have 2017+ Raptor, Navigator, F150, and Expeditions, none of us have had any 3.5L Ecoboost engine problems yet.

 

[X expat]

Thanks guys. I've really had my heart set.
You said after 2020 onward is ok, but that's different from what I've read so far. I just need to read up alot more.
But it's ok, I'm certainly going to wait out the current shortage. Maybe in 6 mo we'll pull the trigger. Plenty of time to read up.

Sent from my SM-G930L using Tapatalk

 

[Soliyou]

Hi, I just joined.

For some time now I've been planning to upgrade our tow vehicle, a 2006 120K mi. Armada 9000lbs tow capacity with a new Expedition with HD tow package.

But now I'm reading here about this unresolved cam phaser issue. As you see, we keep our vehicles a long time.

We have no use for a p/u truck and want to stay with an SUV.

But with this issue, should I look elsewhere? Obviously it's the folks that have had this problem that chime in on the cam phaser threads. But how universal is it? Is it bound to happen at high millage, or even before?

Thanks for any input
Paul

Even after almost three years of buying mine, there is no other product in the market that matches the capabilities/price. So I would purchase mine again.

I think the refreshed 2022 is around the corner. I would wait for that if in no rush to buy. Or at least wait and get a good deal on a 2021.

 

[Alwaysthinkin]

Thanks guys. I've really had my heart set.
You said after 2020 onward is ok, but that's different from what I've read so far. I just need to read up alot more.
But it's ok, I'm certainly going to wait out the current shortage. Maybe in 6 mo we'll pull the trigger. Plenty of time to read up.

Sent from my SM-G930L using Tapatalk

Looks like we are the same age. I made the decision to buy and couldn't be happier. The Expedition is an extravagance at some level but, I wanted what I wanted. Haven't allowed myself that feeling often enough truth be told. So, I say get what your heart wants and don't worry. I doubt you can buy any vehicle with absolute assurance it will be trouble free. I'm going to cover my choice by buying the extended warranty from one of the Ford dealers who are competitive in their pricing. Wasn't in the plan originally but it is now. Just makes sense once you start realizing the costs of just the head and tail lights let alone anything else! Oh, and if the budget allows, leave some money for sway bars! LOL

 

[X expat]

Great to hear your encouraging words!
A 3.5l with more torque and power than my 5.6 V8! We just got back from towing our 21ft 5500lb trailer up out of Phoenix to Williams near the Grand Canyon. Our mpg was a whopping 7!
@alwaysthinking: your right about other vehicles having their own issues. For several years, ours included, the Armada had a problem with the barrier between the tranny coolant and engine coolant breaking down and taking out the xmission.
I changed ours out and for good measure added a second external xmission cooler.

I'm hoping that the current shortage of Expeditions will turn into a glut in a few months ;-)

Sent from my SM-G930L using Tapatalk

 

[Deadman]

Thanks guys. I've really had my heart set.
You said after 2020 onward is ok, but that's different from what I've read so far. I just need to read up alot more.
But it's ok, I'm certainly going to wait out the current shortage. Maybe in 6 mo we'll pull the trigger. Plenty of time to read up.

Sent from my SM-G930L using Tapatalk

Mid year 2019 they updated the cam phasers, I forget the cut off date, so get a 2020 or newer and the phasers are updated.....

 

[5280tunage]

I believe though that mine was after the cutoff (manufactured 06/19) and still had a replacement done. So I'm still not sure if the new design is any better.

 

[Deadman]

I believe though that mine was after the cutoff (manufactured 06/19) and still had a replacement done. So I'm still not sure if the new design is any better.

That engine was probably built 6 months to a year prior to going in the vehicle, thats why I say buy a 2020.

 

[mcb345]

For the OP, wouldn't really fret about the cam phasers or wastegate rattle as long as you purchase a Ford extended warranty. I had my 2019 Expedition cam phasers swapped out and it still rattles for a minute or two on cold start up but they say it’s normal and not to worry so since I’m covered until 125,000 miles and until 2029, I don’t really care to be honest.

Awesome vehicle for towing, hauling the family, fuel economy, safety features, etc, as we all know. Cant beat it.

Honestly no gripes minus the rattle, it’s a really great combo of near luxury and utility. Eventually I’ll upgrade to the Navigator for a more refined luxury interior but I’d have zero hesitations buying this vehicle again.

All other manufacturers / models have issues. We all just complain very loudly about ours!

 

[5280tunage]

That engine was probably built 6 months to a year prior to going in the vehicle, thats why I say buy a 2020.

I'm sure it was, if not more. But I thought your last phaser repair was also after that. Maybe not. Either way, of it's a lubrication issue, I would think you would have to have other hydraulic systems updated to really fix it, not just updated cam components. They will still wear out of they aren't lubricated well.

 

[Alwaysthinkin]

@Deadman and @5280tunage , seems like you both have hit the crux of the question. Is the problem related to poor build of cam phasers or low oil pressure that is just showing up first as a problem in the cam phaser? What has to happen to answer the question of which is the problem? I don't have the background to answer but am curious what you and others think.

 

[Lghtspeedz]

Hi, I just joined.

For some time now I've been planning to upgrade our tow vehicle, a 2006 120K mi. Armada 9000lbs tow capacity with a new Expedition with HD tow package.

But now I'm reading here about this unresolved cam phaser issue. As you see, we keep our vehicles a long time.

We have no use for a p/u truck and want to stay with an SUV.

But with this issue, should I look elsewhere? Obviously it's the folks that have had this problem that chime in on the cam phaser threads. But how universal is it? Is it bound to happen at high millage, or even before?

Thanks for any input
Paul

I believe the cutoff date for cam phaser redesign was something like April 6 or April 9th 2019. So any 2019 built after that has the redesigned part.

I feel for you as I tried to make a similar decision. I needed to upgrade my MDX to tow a 5,200 lb. boat. My MDX was VERY problematic which was completely unexpected. I was weary of buying something that would be another headache. I really liked the Expy but I had my concerns. I researched it for about a year and just about anything else that could tow. The Tahoe has its issues both current and previous gen. The Sequoia is old. I didn’t love the crash test results on the latest Armada. Few crossovers can pull more than 5,000 lbs. The German options just felt like a poor value, too small, and/or too much of a maintenance/repair hog. I just kept coming back to the Expedition. I liked the looks, the ride, the functionality of the interior, etc. I read about the cam phasers and the turbo wastegate issues. I also realized that every car I drove had at least one flaw. And every car I researched had some form of problems. So I stopped worrying and bought the car I liked and wanted. I also take solace in the fact that many of these parts are common. This engine and platform are so heavily related to the F-150 and Navi that I kind of exhaled and decided to move forward with it.

Here’s the thing: I think design windows have been pushed to their limits. People want more space, more power, greater efficiency, better handling, more capability, the latest tech, a quiet ride, and better reliability for less money in every car they drive. To me it just seems like those things combined are unobtanium. So I went into this thinking it’s a solid platform and a popular engine that may need some work from time to time. I plan to pony up for the Ford ESP at some point knowing this is a complex car. But I am also just enjoying it a lot. It’s a relaxing, comfortable drive with a ton of capability and even some zip when needed. For what it’s worth I just made this leap and I haven’t thought about my MDX since I handed over the keys.
Good luck!

 

[lbv150]

Every vehicle including off road equipment I own, have never had an internal engine problem, and I have a fleet of both personal and work vehicles. I never let oil changes go beyond 3K or 100 engine hours. Always warm up to operating temperature before driving or using the equipment. Remote start is great for this. Always let the turbos spool and cool down before shutting engine off. Treat engines with respect and they last a long time.

 

[Proud Okie]

No problems with my 2019 stealth. Would purchase again 100%.

 

[Deadman]

Every vehicle including off road equipment I own, have never had an internal engine problem, and I have a fleet of both personal and work vehicles. I never let oil changes go beyond 3K or 100 engine hours. Always warm up to operating temperature before driving or using the equipment. Remote start is great for this. Always let the turbos spool and cool down before shutting engine off. Treat engines with respect and they last a long time.

I just got one that the factory F'd up internally, so all your warm ups and babying wouldn't fix the fact that Ford put too much gasket maker in and it floated thru the engine and lodged and plugged an oil passage and it ate the camshaft and cam phasers from lack of oil. They aren't all perfect.....no matter how you treat them some are just failures waiting to happen.

 

[osteodoc08]

I had a 2015 Nissan Armada Reserve. What a damn turd. It had an unresolved condition where the TC would not lock up and you could just watch the revs go up and down. After a TC and then a complete trans replacement, it still did it. I dumped it for a 2016 Yukon Denali. I preferred the interior of the Armada but the engine and Trans in the Denali was awesome. I traded the Denali in on the Expedition. I much preferred the driving dynamics of the Denali and the sweet 6.2L, however, the expedition was more functional for me and the kids. Been pretty happy with the 2018 Expedition despite new model teething problems which, knock on wood, really haven’t affected me.

 

[Grizguy]

My only complaints are with the electronics.. The need to put back into eco mode every time I start the car. Having to push the auto shut off button every time I start the car. The key fob the size of a flip cell phone and the android auto not connecting with out messing with it.. and sometimes not at all. Well.. and the fact that when towing the fuel econ SUX! even an empty trailer. I hear the same problem with the f 150..

 

[kjf1]

The Phase used in the 2020 model year engines are from a different manufacturer they do not have an issue. Plus the engine calibration has been changed to also improve the lock condition.

I have a 2018 Model Year Expedition without any Phaser issues. I disconnected the VDOP oil pressure sensor when I purchased the vehicle new to keep oil pressure in high mode all the time.