Drivers turbo replacement...116,000 mile report.

[TobyU]

Sadly my trans went out on my suburban and couldn't afford a Chevy this time I hope my savings now isn't gonna bite me in the end......

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I have had better results with 4R70s, 4R70w, 4R75w, and 4R100 than GM 4L60e.
But at least with all of these a good used unit is always available at a fairly low price.
I refuse to ever give any money to a transmission shop. They are the evilest of evil.

 

[cmiles97]

I can say I'm averaging 4 mpg more than my 2007 Toyota sequoia in non towing mileage and about 1 to 1.5 more towing. Will it have the same longevity? I'll see. If not back to who's the most reliable most likely back to Toyota. I only have to tow 6,000lbs max maybe 6 to 8 times a year. I nearly bought a 4runner instead. So far so good with the Expy.

My 2016 Camaro ss 6.2 got nearly 24mpg average which is amazing for a 455/455 HP/TQ rated car. It was great with it going into and out of 4 cylinder mode until the torque converter started going bad at 17,000 miles. Who says cylinder deactivation tech is less prone to problems than turbos? The Camaro motor was fine but it did affect the transmission. I got to imagine the TQ/HP drop and then increase when going back into 8 cylinder mode has to be absorbed somewhere or it wouldn't be smooth.

 

[cmiles97]

Petroleum motor oils are prone to boil or vaporize within the normal operating temperature of the engine. This is commonly referred to as breakdown. Once the oil begins to breakdown, it usually results in oxidation, creating hardened oil deposits -more commonly know as sludge- in your engines components. Synthetics by contrast, are able to withstand greater heat temperatures, resulting in greater protection against breakdown

Conventinal (dino) oil breaks down at 240F. Synthetic oil keeps going until 500F. I think you will be fine if you idle your Expy for less than a minute before you turn it off. It's very unlikely the synthetic oil will breakdown if you don't.

Saw this on another couple of threads (The Ecoboost motors are designed to not have to idle before shutoff):
https://www.fordflex.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7594

This is from Ford Motor Company.

"Designed for a life cycle of 150,000 miles or 10 years, EcoBoost’s turbochargers feature
water-cooled bearing jackets. This architecture is designed to prevent oil “coking” that could occur
in previous-generation turbochargers. The new design means that EcoBoost drivers don’t need to
observe special operating precautions, such as idling the engine before switching it off.
EcoBoost also endured Ford’s standard engine durability test signoff by running at maximum revs
and turbo boost for the equivalent of 15 straight days or 360 hours.
As the first Ford EcoBoost engine makes its production debut, it has earned its stripes in Ford’s
engine boot camp. It uses that same grade of engine oil specified by Ford for gasoline engines, and
oil changes are scheduled at the same 7,500-mile intervals.
The EcoBoost system is part of Ford’s commitment to deliver the best fuel economy in each new
vehicle. The new 3.5-liter engine is the first in a wave of EcoBoost engines coming as part of Ford’s
strategy to bring affordable fuel efficiency improvements to millions. By 2013, more than 90 percent
of Ford’s North American lineup will be available with EcoBoost technology."

--------------
https://www.f150forum.com/f70/common-myths-about-ecoboost-165949/

I figured after about a couple years that the misinformation about the Ecoboost would die down as people gain knowledge. It has for the most part in the forums, but I realized when talking to customer today on how many myths are still out there in the real world. His Dodge friends fed him so much ignorant BS. Luckily I was there to set him straight. Here are some of the myths that he was told and a few that I am still hearing from others.


Myth 1: You have to use premium fuel at all times in the Ecoboost.

False! The newest F-150 owners manual states.
3.5L V6 EcoBoost engine
“Regular” unleaded gasoline with a pump (R+M)/2 octane rating of 87 is
recommended. Some stations offer fuels posted as “Regular” with an
octane rating below 87, particularly in high altitude areas. Fuels with
octane levels below 87 are not recommended. Premium fuel will provide
improved performance and is recommended for severe duty usage such
as trailer tow.

Myth 2: The Ecoboost has to work harder in the higher rpms to do the same job as a V8 which will make the engine fail sooner.

This could not be further from the truth. Actually it is the exact opposite. Due to it's forced induction, the EB has huge amounts of torque at and below 2,500rpms compared to other N/A V8s. The Tundra I-Force 5.7L V8 has around 350ft-lb of torque at 2,500rpm while the EB has 420ft-lb at the same rpm and keeps it's torque above the Tundra's the rest of the way through the power band. That is around a 70ft-lb difference right where you need it the most, and the difference is even greater with some of the other competitor's V8s. It is torque that gets your truck up and moving, and with that much torque down low, you do not need much rpm to do the same job as the N/A V8s would. It is the exact same concept as a diesel.

Myth 3: It takes a while before the turbos get into the boost, and you are a regular 3.5L until then.

With the turbo's being so small, it does not take much at all for them to spool up. Besides the brief moment for the truck to downshift under heavy throttle like all other trucks do, the power is always their compared to N/A engines that have to get into the higher rpms to get their power. It will take you way more time and throttle to get a N/A V8 to it's power "sweet spot" then for the EB's turbos to spool up and give you the same amount of power to the point that it is instant in comparison.

Myth 4: You have to let the truck idle for 30 seconds before turning it off or you will "coke" your turbo's.

While this was true of turbo's of the past, it is not true for the EB. The EB uses liquid/oil cooled turbos that do not require a turbo timer or idle for 30 seconds to get the turbo's cooled down. If you want more information on this subject the try this Garrett website on liquid cooled turbos.


---------
I would like Ford to back up the 10 year 150,000 claim with a warranty though!

 

[Trainmaster]

Rjdelp7, on what road were you a hogger?

 

[TobyU]

Saw this on another couple of threads (The Ecoboost motors are designed to not have to idle before shutoff):
https://www.fordflex.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7594

This is from Ford Motor Company.

"Designed for a life cycle of 150,000 miles or 10 years, EcoBoost’s turbochargers feature
water-cooled bearing jackets. This architecture is designed to prevent oil “coking” that could occur
in previous-generation turbochargers. The new design means that EcoBoost drivers don’t need to
observe special operating precautions, such as idling the engine before switching it off.
EcoBoost also endured Ford’s standard engine durability test signoff by running at maximum revs
and turbo boost for the equivalent of 15 straight days or 360 hours.
As the first Ford EcoBoost engine makes its production debut, it has earned its stripes in Ford’s
engine boot camp. It uses that same grade of engine oil specified by Ford for gasoline engines, and
oil changes are scheduled at the same 7,500-mile intervals.
The EcoBoost system is part of Ford’s commitment to deliver the best fuel economy in each new
vehicle. The new 3.5-liter engine is the first in a wave of EcoBoost engines coming as part of Ford’s
strategy to bring affordable fuel efficiency improvements to millions. By 2013, more than 90 percent
of Ford’s North American lineup will be available with EcoBoost technology."

--------------
https://www.f150forum.com/f70/common-myths-about-ecoboost-165949/

I figured after about a couple years that the misinformation about the Ecoboost would die down as people gain knowledge. It has for the most part in the forums, but I realized when talking to customer today on how many myths are still out there in the real world. His Dodge friends fed him so much ignorant BS. Luckily I was there to set him straight. Here are some of the myths that he was told and a few that I am still hearing from others.


Myth 1: You have to use premium fuel at all times in the Ecoboost.

False! The newest F-150 owners manual states.
3.5L V6 EcoBoost engine
“Regular” unleaded gasoline with a pump (R+M)/2 octane rating of 87 is
recommended. Some stations offer fuels posted as “Regular” with an
octane rating below 87, particularly in high altitude areas. Fuels with
octane levels below 87 are not recommended. Premium fuel will provide
improved performance and is recommended for severe duty usage such
as trailer tow.

Myth 2: The Ecoboost has to work harder in the higher rpms to do the same job as a V8 which will make the engine fail sooner.

This could not be further from the truth. Actually it is the exact opposite. Due to it's forced induction, the EB has huge amounts of torque at and below 2,500rpms compared to other N/A V8s. The Tundra I-Force 5.7L V8 has around 350ft-lb of torque at 2,500rpm while the EB has 420ft-lb at the same rpm and keeps it's torque above the Tundra's the rest of the way through the power band. That is around a 70ft-lb difference right where you need it the most, and the difference is even greater with some of the other competitor's V8s. It is torque that gets your truck up and moving, and with that much torque down low, you do not need much rpm to do the same job as the N/A V8s would. It is the exact same concept as a diesel.

Myth 3: It takes a while before the turbos get into the boost, and you are a regular 3.5L until then.

With the turbo's being so small, it does not take much at all for them to spool up. Besides the brief moment for the truck to downshift under heavy throttle like all other trucks do, the power is always their compared to N/A engines that have to get into the higher rpms to get their power. It will take you way more time and throttle to get a N/A V8 to it's power "sweet spot" then for the EB's turbos to spool up and give you the same amount of power to the point that it is instant in comparison.

Myth 4: You have to let the truck idle for 30 seconds before turning it off or you will "coke" your turbo's.

While this was true of turbo's of the past, it is not true for the EB. The EB uses liquid/oil cooled turbos that do not require a turbo timer or idle for 30 seconds to get the turbo's cooled down. If you want more information on this subject the try this Garrett website on liquid cooled turbos.


---------
I would like Ford to back up the 10 year 150,000 claim with a warranty though!

As mentioned earlier, usually by the time you pull where you are going and park, the engine had idled plenty to cool a turbo.
Ford can SAY all they want.
The reason they won't stand behind the turbo 150K 10y is because turbos are a wear out item.
If they market and say they are designed for 150k/10 then a lot of them will fail at 90-130 and 6-8.

It's almost like some people LIKE car companies! LOL
I say that tongue and cheek but I don't like any of them.
Sure we need cars so we are happy somebody makes something and there is some competition to give us some quality...but they don't car about us.
Just like everything else...They want to sell their product and get past warranty but NOT be too much better or worse than the competitors.
The whole industry is going to hell. Ridiculous prices....and people argue about that and RATIONALIZE the prices.
Let me shout this...THERE IS NO WAY these new cars are worth or should cost this much!!

STOP ACTIN LIKE IT'S OK!!
That just adds fuel to the fire and they will keep pushing.

No company wants to make such a great product that you will keep it 10-15 years..why would they. They want you to buy another.
They want to be a little better of at least give you the features or styling you like better tha other company so you will buy theirs again.

Some don't even car too much about this.
Like some industries that only want to woo you to get new customers but care little about keeping you.

Only a few companies out there. Everyone has to buy a product so a company will get new customers form other companies as they piss people off.

Viscous, lousy mentality...but true.

 

[cmiles97]

I get what you are saying but it seems Toyota & Honda have grown in market share for deciding to design vehicles that last longer with higher quality or maybe because their labor force isn't always in conflict with management? Even they have issues from time to time. I personally was the 3rd owner of a 2001 Tacoma that spent it's life in Tennessee before I bought it while living in FL. I'll never forget getting a letter from Toyota giving the truck a 10 year extended frame warranty. I don't know if they were forced to do that via lawsuit or did it as a customer service knowing they had issues but I was impressed that they would back their product. I have owned 3 Toyota vehicles since. Everyone high mileage and exceptional in quality.

I'm hoping the Expy lives up to this level. There are scary stories of problems for which I purchased an extended Ford Factory warranty. At the time of purchase I couldn't afford the Sequoia I wanted or would have had to purchase an older one with significantly higher mileage. Jeep, Ford, Dodge & Nissan SUVS were on the lower end of price in the used market. GM, Honda, Toyota & Lexus were on the higher end. There are reasons for this.
(Edit: I couldn't believe how many older Expys and Navigators had rust or rust bubbles on the tailgate, they were automaitic no, I'd take the risk on a newer one living in the south. I never thougt at the time I'd be living in the rust belt again)

On prices I used to think $30K for a vehicle is nuts. Now trucks are $60K and new Expys $75K?

 

[TobyU]

I think you're right about most of the Toyota Honda models. I think all the car companies are bad about giving us what we want though. I complain now that the new SUVs are way too fancy and overdone to make them expensive but for years I would not want a 4Runner because they were too plain and boring and not enough leather and of course no 3rd row seating.
The Expedition came out in like what 97 and held eight people and the Chevy Trailblazer was the smaller size SUV that also had 3rd row seating for 7 people in like 03 or 04. How long did it take Toyota to come out with a third row seating in a 4Runner? I think they were late to the game but I guess I wasn't paying a lot of attention because they look the same for too many years. Now for the past few years they're starting to look like a vehicle I wouldn't mind having.
I'm going to have to research them though because we sometimes it's assumed Toyota and the 4 runners are such high-quality and don't have any problems but maybe they do. I'm so tired of the GM crap with a four-wheel drive having so many issues to mess up. It's almost impossible to own one for five or six years without having a problem with a 4x4. The older Fords are much better about this but it's just sad. It's just ridiculous for something that is only used three or four times and it's life to not work when you need it.

 

[Muddy Bean]

CMILES,

I will say this, I really really love my truck. I will keep throwing money at it with the hopes of enjoying its plethora of creature comforts and generous helping of horsepower/torque, but when it’s time to send this truck to its new owner, my wife and I already determined we are back to Lexus/Toyota. I hate how bland they are...zero innovation, terrible MPG pretty much all the time, but my Land Cruiser never, ever left me stranded. Ever. 300,000 miles of trouble free driving. Same with my Toyota Camry, Tercel, Corolla, and Tacoma. They all ticked like a clock. We are eyeing the Lexus LX570 as we did enjoy our Land Cruiser muchly.


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[cmiles97]

That LC is nice! Even with a ton of miles on older LC, the used price is high. They are hard to find for a good price as people hang on to them.

So far so good with my Expy even though it should be as it just rolled 48,000 miles. The 100,000 to 200,000 range is where the proof of a manufacturer comes in. I've had 3 pre year 2000 Jeeps, one Wrangler and two Cherokees. They ran great with high mileage but would nickel & dime you to death.

The Lexus 570s are sweet. Boy are they thirsty 12/18 MPG and they are $25k used 9-11years old with over 125K or much more miles on them. Worth it for bullet proof reliability. Considering my 17 Expy was $34K with 29,000 miles on it.

 

[Muddy Bean]

Not sure if you followed my other threads but I’ve blown a drivers turbo, coolant line, throttle body, two struts and was stranded by moisture in my intercooler which was fixed by simply drilling a small hole in it. But still, drama when I was out of town. Had to buy tools etc to do it.


All by 116,000 miles. I was in love with the truck until this all went down.


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[JExpedition07]

Glad to hear you still like your Expedition, they are good trucks. Toyota has one of the best reputations for reliability. And although I agree with your comments about them being boring.....that’s why they build a great truck. They aren’t worried about the next innovation or being the first to do something. They wait for everyone else to screw up and perfect their own vehicles after the tech is better dissected and made more reliable. Different brand cultures.

 

[TobyU]

A lot of this definitely have a different definition of innovative or boring. Now the old 4runners with cloth interior we're awfully Bland but I don't think I've ever seen a Lexus that I would call boring.
I've never been a real import guy but maybe I will become one with these new Us cars pushing so hard to have the latest and greatest with technology. I want none of that. All I need are some cup holders and a couple of lighter sockets. Oh, and I have to have 3rd row seating. It's just like 4-wheel drive. I rarely ever use it sometimes only two or three times in my entire ownership of the vehicle but I just have to have it.

 

[mquick5]

What type of signs will the truck give you, when the turbos fail?

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[Muddy Bean]

What type of signs will the truck give you, when the turbos fail?

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I just lost some power. Didn’t have the same pep. Also made some weird noises on full throttle applications. I can’t even describe them.


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[rjdelp7]

What type of signs will the truck give you, when the turbos fail?

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Google 'Locomotive turbo failure, youtube' Pretty cool footage. The ones I saw go, spit oil everywhere out the stack. They would run normal until mid throttle. Near the top end, would surge, flood with fuel and explode with fire out the exhaust. Sometimes, they would whine or would vibrate. My guess, Ford has a fail safe mode. My co-workers 2011EB, leaked oil, before it failed.

 

[Muddy Bean]

Google 'Locomotive turbo failure, youtube' Pretty cool footage. The ones I saw go, spit oil everywhere out the stack. They would run normal until mid throttle. Near the top end, would surge, flood with fuel and explode with fire out the exhaust. Sometimes, they would whine or would vibrate. My guess, Ford has a fail safe mode. My co-workers 2011EB, leaked oil, before it failed.

Not all turbo failures happen catastrophically. I’ve had my drivers turbo fail on my truck and I’ve also had turbo failures on both of my private coaches and none of the three were catastrophic.


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