Engine problems please help!

[Enrique]

Hello, I would like to see if anyone has an answer to what could be wrong with my Expedition. I recently purchased a 2005 Ford Expedition Eddie Bauer with 46,000 miles. I have a huge concern because I use it to tow my 14 foot enclosed trailer for work, the vehicle is equipped with a factory towing package (heavy duty). The problem I'm having is the following;
When I drive on the highway I don't have any problem at all, moves the trailer perfectly, the problem is when after driving on the highway and when I'm parking the trailer I have to back into a space that is on an a slight incline (nothing big). While backing the truck engine starts to rattle severely and the idle speed gets very inconstant. When this happens if I just put it in park and raise the RPMs it stops rattling. But when I resume it happens again. Also this happens not only in reverse but for example after driving on the highway and making a stop if I have to go over any type of incline the same thing happens.

What could be the problem? Please help!!

 

[FordandPolaris]

My truck gets like this too after highway driving. It is most likely a COP on its last legs. After being under load for an extended period of time, the COP's just seem to not spark correctly. Seems a little odd to have one start to go out with so few miles, but that is my bet. Do you get a check engine light? If not, then you might have to chase it down. If money is not too big a factor, replace all 8 and start fresh along with the plugs.

 

[Enrique]

Thank you for your reply. Yes the engine light just came on yesterday but this has been only the third time pulling the trailer. There is another issue that I didn't mention, the engine also make a ticking noise which gets louder when the rattling starts. Could the whole issue be related to the Cam Phasers?

I'm not familiar with the "COP" can you tell me what parts you think need to be checked?

Thank you again for your help.

 

[FordandPolaris]

COP=Coil on Plug. It is a little black circular piece that sits on top of the spark plugs. They are right next to the fuel rails when looking down at the motor. I am not too familiar with the cam phaser problem as that is more of a 2nd gen thing. Still since your CEL came on, I would stop by a local parts house (autozone, o'reilly, whatever is in your area) and have them pull the codes using their OBDII scanner. They should let you use this for free, and will help you out if you don't know how it works. Write down what codes you get and bring them back here. More than likely you will get a code for a misfire on one of the 8 cylinders.

 

[toms89]

If it does not do it while accelerating under load I would think your cops are not the cause. If yours is a 3v motor, I believe the 05's are, possible a cam phaser issue? Maybe exhaust leak?

Can you post video of the issue or sound?

 

[FordandPolaris]

FORD 5.4 with cam phaser issue - YouTube

Sound like that?

I have been reading a little bit on cam phasers in the last half hour. If you do think this is the problem, this could be a route to go...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmzEt2TTq7Y

Read the description of the video to see what he is talking about. He has another video after he had the lockouts installed. Still, start with the codes. That will help narrow things down.

 

[Enrique]

Thank you for your replay...YES !!! the second video is exactly the sound and the rattle of the engine "But only happen after pulling my trailer, also the engine sound like in the first video. I went to Auto Zone and they read the engine code is "P0022" "Intake Cam Shaft Position Timing Over Retarded" how bad is the problem? how soon this needs to be fixed? what about the cost of this repair?

Thank you so much for your help !!

 

[FordandPolaris]

5.4 cam phasers...fix or not? - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums

According to this thread some guys fix it to varying results while others live with it, also to varying results. If you do plan on fixing it and want to pay someone to do it, I would be wary of dealerships. Try and find a local shop to see if they would be willing to try and fix it.

The problem only happens when the engine is warm apparently, so that would explain why you get it only AFTER highway driving. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the one guy that mentioned a CEL in that thread in relation to the cam phasers had a truck with a blown motor shortly after...

 

[Enrique]

Look at this service bulletin :

http://www.fordservicecontent.com/pubs/content/~WT/~MUS~LEN/3555/tsb12-07-10.pdf

 

[FordandPolaris]

Ford definitely knows its out there. But from what I have read, many guys get it "repaired" only for it to start making the noise again after a short period of time... I am only going off of what I can read on the web though, I have no personal experience with these motors, so take that into consideration.

That being said I would not just leave it until she blows cause that will just add to the cost.

 

[toms89]

found this link with quick google search...

The Final Repair Guide to 5.4 Cam Phaser Tick/Knock Sound - Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans

 

[Swetrid]

Ford has tsb for new vct solenoids.

Printable View (1567 KB)
TSB
12-7-10 5.4L INTERMITTENT RATTLE NOISE / ROUGH IDLE WHEN ENGINE IS AT OPERATING TEMPERATURE

Publication Date: July 23, 2012

FORD: 2004-2010 F-150
2005-2010 F-250, F-350
2005-2012 Expedition
LINCOLN: 2005-2012 Navigator
2006-2008 Mark LT


ISSUE:
Some 2004-2010 F-150, 2005-2010 F-Super Duty, 2005-2012 Expedition, Navigator and 2006-2008 Mark LT vehicles equipped with a 5.4L 3V engine may exhibit an intermittent rattle noise/rough idle when engine is at operating temperature. The issue is caused by oscillating cam timing, diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs) P0022, P0021, P0340, and/or P0341 may be stored in the powertrain control module (PCM).

ACTION:
Follow the Service Procedure steps to correct the condition.

SERVICE PROCEDURE

Using the Integrated Diagnostic System (IDS) scan tool or equivalent monitor cam solenoid duty cycle and cylinder head temperature (CHT) Parameter Identification (PIDs):
Start IDS
Select Data Logger
Select PIDs VCTDC, VCTDC2, and CHT
With the engine idling at normal operating temperature CHT above 93 °C (200 °F) apply the parking brake and hold service brake pedal firmly with transmission selector lever in (D). Raise engine RPMs from idle to approximately 1500 RPMs and release the throttle. Does the vehicle exhibit a rattle type noise with a rough idle and are the cam solenoid duty cycle PID values oscillating after RPMs return to idle speed? (Figure 1)


Figure 1 - Article 12-7-10


Yes - Proceed to Step 3.
No - This article does not apply. Refer to Workshop Manual (WSM), Section 303-00 for normal diagnostics.
Replace both the left and right Variable Camshaft Timing (VCT) Oil Control solenoids. Refer to WSM, Section 303-04B for 2004 vehicles OR 303-14 for 2005-2012 vehicles.

PART NUMBER PART NAME
8L3Z-6M280-B Variable Camshaft Timing Solenoid
7L1Z-6584-B LH Cam Cover Gasket For 14 Bolt Cam Cover
7L1Z-6584-A RH Cam Cover Gasket For 8-9 Bolt Cam Cover
3L3Z-6584-EA RH Cam Cover Gasket For 14 Bolt Cam Cover
3L3Z-6584-DB LH Cam Cover Gasket For 15 Bolt Cam Cover
3L3Z-6C535-AA VCT Solenoid To Cam Cover Gasket 2004-2006


WARRANTY STATUS:
Eligible Under Provisions Of New Vehicle Limited Warranty Coverage And Emissions Warranty Coverage
IMPORTANT: Warranty/ESP coverage limits/policies/prior approvals are not altered by a TSB. Warranty/ESP coverage limits are determined by the identified causal part and verified using the OASIS part coverage tool.

OPERATION DESCRIPTION TIME
120710A 2006 Mark LT, 2004-2006 F-150, 2005-2006 Expedition, Navigator: Diagnose And Replace Both VCT Solenoids (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations) 0.7 Hr.
120710A 2007-2010 F-Super Duty 250/350: Diagnose And Replace Both VCT Solenoids (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations) 2.7 Hrs.
120710A 2007-2012 Expedition, Navigator: Diagnose And Replace Both VCT Solenoids (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations) 3.2 Hrs.
120710A 2007-2010 F-150, 2007-2008 Mark LT: Diagnose And Replace Both VCT Solenoids (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations) 3.6 Hrs.
120710A 2005-2006 F-Super Duty 250/350: Diagnose And Replace Both VCT Solenoids (Do Not Use With Any Other Labor Operations) 0.6 Hr.

DEALER CODING
BASIC PART NO. CONDITION CODE
6M280 42