Grinding noise during startup

[Bow512]

I don’t know who the oil question was direct to but thought I’d share my experience.

I have been changing my oil every 5-7k since new. Always use a motorcraft filter and started with Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 then switched to Mobil 1 EP 5w30.

Started the sound at some point after the first change (PP) and didn’t make a bit of difference when I switched to the Mobil. Been driving it for 15k making the noise. It’s only after it sits overnight.

 

[scottdm]

I don’t know who the oil question was direct to but thought I’d share my experience.

I have been changing my oil every 5-7k since new. Always use a motorcraft filter and started with Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 then switched to Mobil 1 EP 5w30.

Started the sound at some point after the first change (PP) and didn’t make a bit of difference when I switched to the Mobil. Been driving it for 15k making the noise. It’s only after it sits overnight.

Have you made a warranty claim regarding the noise? If mine ever starts, I'll be going to the dealer to get it resolved under warranty.

 

[edizzle]

Motorcraft filter Amsoil Signature Series 5w30

 

[Bow512]

Have you made a warranty claim regarding the noise? If mine ever starts, I'll be going to the dealer to get it resolved under warranty.

I haven’t yet as there hasn’t been an actual fix and it runs fine besides that. That SSM I posted about earlier is supposed to be issued as a TSB soon so once it’s out I will (all that is hearsay though). I still have 10k left on the bumper to bumper warranty so I’m not in a big rush. I absolutely hate going to the dealer so I wait until I have a list of things and get it all taken care of at once.

 

[Julio Walker]

What oil filter are you using? A cheap one, without the anti-drain back, will dry start the engine.

I don’t know...I just bought it Friday and has been in the shop since Monday...I was planning on going full synthetic immediately after delivery since I don’t trust the dealer

 

[Julio Walker]

Dealer called and they will need it for two weeks since parts are on back ordered, but schedule to ship next week. Wtf...we will see if it’s fixed. Basically haven’t driven it except home and back to dealer.

 

[edizzle]

what are they going to fix? they are wasting your time. there is no fix available. MOST ecoboost will do this at some point. Im not saying there isnt a fix, im saying there is not one discussed, published, available, acknowledged, etc.

would love to know what they are "fixing" for you

 

[Bill Schell]

What oil filter are you using? A cheap one, without the anti-drain back, will dry start the engine.

If part of the reason for the cam phaser noise is dry start (and I hear it's often worse after the car has not been started for days), why don't they just correct that? Most engines have a system to pressurize oil prior to start. I'm guessing the 3.5L EB does as well but that it simply is not getting sufficient coverage to the problem areas? It is well documented that at least 50% of engine wear happens at start-up. I find it crazy that there is a market for aftermarket pre-lube systems. OEM designs should have this covered in spades!! If my cars have been sitting idle for days, I always cycle the ignition on and off a couple of times before moving key to start.

This being the first "push button" start vehicle I've owned, I'm not sure if just hitting the on button (w/o the brake pedal depressed), and having the instrument panel come alive, is doing a oil pressurization - does anyone know?? I sure don't hear any sound that would indicate it's moving oil.

If the system does not have pre start oil pressurization, shame on Ford. If that's the case, I would start looking into an add on system.

https://www.cpperformance.com/products/Oil/engine-pre-lube.htm
http://engineprelube.com/

 

[Deadman]

They're probably putting new faulty parts in to get the car past the warranty period. Then when they rattle again the customer can pay for the updated parts if the warranty is over.... Possibility....

 

[Deadman]

If part of the reason for the cam phaser noise is dry start (and I hear it's often worse after the car has not been started for days), why don't they just correct that? Most engines have a system to pressurize oil prior to start. I'm guessing the 3.5L EB does as well but that it simply is not getting sufficient coverage to the problem areas? It is well documented that at least 50% of engine wear happens at start-up. I find it crazy that there is a market for aftermarket pre-lube systems. OEM designs should have this covered in spades!! If my cars have been sitting idle for days, I always cycle the ignition on and off a couple of times before moving key to start.

This being the first "push button" start vehicle I've owned, I'm not sure if just hitting the on button (w/o the brake pedal depressed), and having the instrument panel come alive, is doing a oil pressurization - does anyone know?? I sure don't hear any sound that would indicate it's moving oil.

If the system does not have pre start oil pressurization, shame on Ford. If that's the case, I would start looking into an add on system.

https://www.cpperformance.com/products/Oil/engine-pre-lube.htm
http://engineprelube.com/

I do know that the fuel pump pre-charges when you open the drivers door! No clue on oiling system.

 

[Bill Schell]

I don’t know who the oil question was direct to but thought I’d share my experience.

I have been changing my oil every 5-7k since new. Always use a motorcraft filter and started with Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 then switched to Mobil 1 EP 5w30.

Started the sound at some point after the first change (PP) and didn’t make a bit of difference when I switched to the Mobil. Been driving it for 15k making the noise. It’s only after it sits overnight.

It was directed at everyone; hoping someone knew whether the EB engines have a pre-start oil pressurization design/system. It dosen't matter what oil or oil filter is used. If, at start-up, the critical lubrication points are void (or nearly so) of oil, that's a bad design.

 

[Bow512]

It’s a mechanical pump thus no pressure until the motor is cranking. That’s why if you hold the gas pedal to the floor when you push the start button (with the brake) it will just crank and not fire. Do that for 3-5 seconds let off the gas and it fires with no sound at startup.

I did run by the dealer this morning to ask about that SSM. He pulled it up and it does state a TSB is coming fourth quarter 2019.

 

[Bill Galvin]

Just had my 2018 in for cam phaser service . Same noise after truck sat overnight or a long time. Truck out of service a month while parts and work were done. 28,000 miles

 

[Bill Schell]

It’s a mechanical pump thus no pressure until the motor is cranking. That’s why if you hold the gas pedal to the floor when you push the start button (with the brake) it will just crank and not fire. Do that for 3-5 seconds let off the gas and it fires with no sound at startup.

I did run by the dealer this morning to ask about that SSM. He pulled it up and it does state a TSB is coming fourth quarter 2019.

Well, that would explain the issue. So depressing/holding the accelerator to the floor at startup will allow the engine to crank but not fire?

Regarding the TSB, did your dealer say what Ford is offering to do? If they are just replacing worn parts in hopes they'll last past your warranty, that's BALONEY. What they should do is include a oil pressure system that fixes the original design shortcoming.

This isn't getting it done and needs some help

 

[rjdelp7]

Cam Phasers again? Good job fixing that issue Ford!

 

[Bow512]

Well, that would explain the issue. So depressing/holding the accelerator to the floor at startup will allow the engine to crank but not fire?

Regarding the TSB, did your dealer say what Ford is offering to do? If they are just replacing worn parts in hopes they'll last past your warranty, that's BALONEY. What they should do is include a oil pressure system that fixes the original design shortcoming.

This isn't getting it done and needs some help

View attachment 32625

I was looking at the computer with him. No details on what the tsb will be specifically. At the time the SSM just replaces the cam phasers and updates the programming. Something must have changed in the part because it is only related to vehicles built prior to 4/8/2019

 

[Bill Schell]

I was looking at the computer with him. No details on what the tsb will be specifically. At the time the SSM just replaces the cam phasers and updates the programming. Something must have changed in the part because it is only related to vehicles built prior to 4/8/2019

Let's hope for a part design improvement instead of simply replacing parts and running customers past warranty.

 

[Bill Schell]

I found an article that said changes to the timing chain design and material were made in 2017 and introduced to the Expedition and Navigator in 2018. At least Ford is working to address the known shortcomings. Whether they have solved them remains to be seen.

 

[twernst]

Folks, this is way beyond my knowledge. But I have been hearing same noise on cold starts since almost new, at least as long as I can remember. Is this the same issue everyone is talking about and how do you convince dealer to address.

I have a video I just shot but not sure how to upload.
Thanks,

 

[Bow512]

Nevermind