Heated and cooled seats

[montecarlo31]

The dealership called me and stated that they are replacing the module on mine for the second time in 6 months. They're also replacing the seat track and the memory module for the seat. These seats are more trouble than they're than effin' worth. :/

Mine went out on my 13 expedition and the seat track now rocks as well. Lovely for a sub 30K mile car. Ford products suck and have gotten worse lately. I actually ordered 15 little Peterbilts this month instead of my normal F-650 run.

For what it's worth my wife has a QX80 and we've had ZERO warranty issues with it and it's got 10X the features that the expedition does and probably twice the off road ability.

 

[k9education]

Ford products suck and have gotten worse lately.

I loved my 2000 Mountaineer. I bought it in 2006 for $9,700 and in the first 8.5 years of ownership, I put practically nothing into it (maybe $400 in repairs during that time). During the last 6 months of ownership, I sunk about $1,200 into it, but still not bad for 9 years. I ended up selling it a couple months ago for $2,600 with 234K on the clock and zero doubt that it would go to 300K without a hiccup. Best vehicle I ever owned. I've already had it with the Expedition after 6 months and I will not be buying another Ford. Ever.

 

[botts]

Can the pigtail be removed from the seats at both ends?

Or should I just do the crimping under the seat and not attempt to remove it from the non-module end?

 

[Gamecock]

So my heated seat have been down for awhile an I'm over the cold leather in the mornings. I ordered up a new harness off Rock Auto for about $40, went to Home Depot and got 10-12 gauge butt connectors, a mini touch (for heat shrinking them, not 100% necessary but I figured do it right), and a new strip/crimping pliers. All told it took me about 2.5 hours taking my time and watching this video:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=FLm6tzddV7IVOmFM8LulSP_w

The only thing I did different is use butt connectors that have heat shrink on the ends. Also the plastic cover on the front of the passenger seat just pulls off. Take it off and get it out of the way and then its easy to see what is what and where everything belongs and tucks in. You will have long wires after the job, but it all tucks up in there. Just make sure you keep it away from anything that moves so you don't cut a wire.


One funny story from the job:
I had a wire I guess I did get fully spliced so I'm pulled on the pliers to strip it (the sheath) and it finally lets go and "POP" I whack myself right in the forehead! LOL Didn't think anything of it and no one was watching so I go back to work. Wife comes out to check on my like 5 minutes after it happened and is like what happened to your head?! I look in the mirror and have a little stream of blood running down my face. Never knew! LOL
Only I could do something like that!

 

[botts]

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=FLm6tzddV7IVOmFM8LulSP_w

The only thing I did different is use butt connectors that have heat shrink on the ends. Also the plastic cover on the front of the passenger seat just pulls off. Take it off and get it out of the way and then its easy to see what is what and where everything belongs and tucks in. You will have long wires after the job, but it all tucks up in there. Just make sure you keep it away from anything that moves so you don't cut a wire.

I smacked myself in the head with my drill putting holes in a trailer a little while ago. Thank goodness for eye protection.

Good call on the heat shrink butt connectors, keeping water out of those will be greatly beneficial. I soldered mine, but heat shrunk them after. Probably overkill, and those weather resistant work pretty much as well as long as you crimp them well.

 

[Ford Convert]

So can anyone confirm that buy the dscm from a junkyard is reasonable and effective course of action? Also can anyone confirm that I have to take it to the dealer for programming? Seems like seat climate control wouldnt need programmed.

 

[MattyMMA]

If you follow the link to the youtube video above, i believe you just change the end of the wires with the new adaptor, and it basically runs two grounds. Even though there is a little blackening on the DSCM, it appears to work fine after the fix above. Because you are not changing out the DSCM, there should be no reprogramming. I would attempt in two phases, fix the ground, then replace the DSCM if necessary.

Just started happening on our 2010. We have an extended warranty until 100K, but I'm making them do the TSB.

 

[drokmofo]

I ordered the pig tail from rockauto for $36+ shipping. Will be doing the fix this week before we head to Colorado for a week. Thx to all who have provided info in this thread.

 

[Ford Convert]

awesome! order the part at our local ACI Parts warehouse 37.42 plus tax. Cant wait to work on this tomorrow. I hope it works. If it does I am going to the Ford dealer and telling them they owe me $100 buck for their useless diagnostics.

 

[Adieu]

Mine went out on my 13 expedition and the seat track now rocks as well. Lovely for a sub 30K mile car. Ford products suck and have gotten worse lately. I actually ordered 15 little Peterbilts this month instead of my normal F-650 run.

For what it's worth my wife has a QX80 and we've had ZERO warranty issues with it and it's got 10X the features that the expedition does and probably twice the off road ability.

Seat track loose, isnt that just something not bolted down tight?

 

[drokmofo]

Just finished replacing the pigtail. It took me longer to get the plug off than it did to do all the connections. The ground pin @ M was welded and melted into the plug. I had to use some channel locks and screwdrivers to get the plug off after waaay to long and a few choice words. I tested the operation of the seats in both modes, both speeds and all is well. Very happy to have this creature comfort back. Especially with summer around the corner. Thanks mucho to everyone who had input on this. It is a easy fix but sort of awkward on the body.

 

[Gumbyalso]

Heated & cooled seats



After the fact I found this link navigator: heated seats lights come on for a few seconds and then goes that talks to the extra ground. My connector was smoked at Pin M and the DCSM showed corresponding burn damage. Since I took it to the dealer I don't know if the old DSCM would have worked with the new connector. I still would have ended up at the dealer to get it programmed, though for a lot less than the 2.5 hrs they charged for the repair. I paid $40 for the pigtail and $218 for the DSCM. Hopefully the added ground will prevent the same type failure. If I had it to do over I would have replaced the pigtail, tried it with the existing DSCM and if that failed, I would have gone on a junkyard search.

Since I wrote the above, the heating and cooling failed just on the driver's seat. I knew it wasn't the DSCM because I already went through that and knew that would affect both seats. The heat lights would stay on for 10-15 seconds and go out. Cooling would stay on longer, but eventually it would stop as well. I could hear the fan motor surging when I turned the cooling on. I decided to swap the "Cooling module" (the fan module, 9L1Z-14C724-C) between the passenger and driver's seats. The problem followed the driver's side "cooling module" to the passenger seat and now the driver's seat heating and cooling works. It's the same module on both sides. It's held in with just plastic hooks on my '11 EB. I unbolted the seats (takes a T55 torx plus) and tilted the seats forward to get access. Disconnect the cooling module electrical connector. Unhook the right side of the module first from the cushion spring by squeezing the cushion spring inboard, then slide the module to the left. Sliding it left will disengage the module from the seat vent and the hook that's on the left side of the module. I have the Ford shop manuals and there is nothing in there that describes this correctly. They want you to pull the seats and disassemble them to get at the cooling modules. No need. You can probably do this job in about 45 minutes, including vacuuming up all the french fries, m&ms, jolly ranchers, coins, and whatever else has landed where you couldn't get at them for the last seven years. The only tools you need are a T55 socket, a ratchet and maybe a torque wrench to put 30lb back on the seat bolts when you're done. Not only does the seat heat work, but it smells better without all that organic material under it. I will buy a new cooling module (@ $150) for the passenger seat when I get around to it.

 

[KyleW]

Since I wrote the above, the heating and cooling failed just on the driver's seat. I knew it wasn't the DSCM because I already went through that and knew that would affect both seats. The heat lights would stay on for 10-15 seconds and go out. Cooling would stay on longer, but eventually it would stop as well. I could hear the fan motor surging when I turned the cooling on. I decided to swap the "Cooling module" (the fan module, 9L1Z-14C724-C) between the passenger and driver's seats. The problem followed the driver's side "cooling module" to the passenger seat and now the driver's seat heating and cooling works. It's the same module on both sides. It's held in with just plastic hooks on my '11 EB. I unbolted the seats (takes a T55 torx plus) and tilted the seats forward to get access. Disconnect the cooling module electrical connector. Unhook the right side of the module first from the cushion spring by squeezing the cushion spring inboard, then slide the module to the left. Sliding it left will disengage the module from the seat vent and the hook that's on the left side of the module. I have the Ford shop manuals and there is nothing in there that describes this correctly. They want you to pull the seats and disassemble them to get at the cooling modules. No need. You can probably do this job in about 45 minutes, including vacuuming up all the french fries, m&ms, jolly ranchers, coins, and whatever else has landed where you couldn't get at them for the last seven years. The only tools you need are a T55 socket, a ratchet and maybe a torque wrench to put 30lb back on the seat bolts when you're done. Not only does the seat heat work, but it smells better without all that organic material under it. I will buy a new cooling module (@ $150) for the passenger seat when I get around to it.

Awesome post! I had the same issue and used your advice to sort out that it was the blower. Since it was already toast pretty much I took it apart. It took a while since the screws are tiny and have a weird head on them. I just used some pliers to get the screws out. Then I used electric contact cleaner and sprayed it all over the copper fins which were VERY dirty. Then I let it dry and plugged it into the plug under the seat and sure enough it worked! Put everything back together and I have two heated seats again. Thanks for posting!

 

[Matthew Jorgensen]

Is it possible (within reason) to ADD heated/Cooled seats to a 2010 Expo that does NOT have them factory installed?

 

[Trainmaster]

If it's an XLT, it probably does not have the wiring for the seats and control module.

 

[star-art]

Is it possible (within reason) to ADD heated/Cooled seats to a 2010 Expo that does NOT have them factory installed?

It has never been done as far as I know. When I bought my 2009 XLT, I also got a complete set of seats from a 2010 Navigator with only about 6000 miles. I had hoped to swap them into my truck. Then, I discovered this mod requires some computer hacking to make it work. There's a Driver's Seat Module (DSM) that my truck didn't have, plus a Dual Climate Seat Module (DCSM) under the passenger seat. Both these modules have to be wired up and integrated into the vehicle network. Then, the buttons that control the seats have no physical connection with the DCSM. That is done via communication with the dual-zone HVAC module (something else my truck did not have).

If you really want them, and you are willing to spend some $$$, the company that makes the parts (Gentherm) offers aftermarket installs through authorized dealers. This will get you the same quality as factory OEM seats, but it is not cheap!

 

[Trainmaster]

Did you ever figure out the basics of the seat heating/cooling elements? Can you completely ditch the controllers and simply power them with your own switches? If that works, you can add your own simple adjustable thermostats. Or do the elements have fifteen 28ga wires coming out of them and that's wishful thinking?

 

[star-art]

I understand them pretty well. They are not "elements" at all and are nothing like what you might be used to. The seats operate using "TED" units (Thermo-Electric Device). These produce heat in one direction when current is applied, and reverse operation when the current is reversed. This lets one unit provide both heating and cooling. They operate in conjunction with special seat foam that contains "channels" for air to flow, fans, and sensors. All this is computer controlled. The only way to install them in your vehicle is to use aftermarket control modules and switches. Unfortunately, the company that makes them won't sell parts to us. They sell only complete, installed systems through their authorized dealers.

 

[Trainmaster]

I know you were pretty involved with these, Star. What exactly does the control module do? Change voltage to the TEDs? Feed them varied AC frequencies? How are the TEDs powered? I would think you could mimic the output of these controls to power the elements and then worry about the variables. Since I know zero about these, am I being too simplistic? I'm sure you know what the TEDs want, so why wouldn't you just design another control that provides this?

 

[star-art]

In theory, it seems simple enough. In practice, however, it's potentially way too complicated to bother with. It would be MUCH easier to just get some aftermarket control modules or try to get the whole setup from the manufacturer.

I don't know if the TED units need constant current or pulsed voltage. There are also sensors to make sure the system operates within safe limits. Given the fact these things are not unlike "heaters" they can potentially be dangerous if they were to malfunction.

The biggest problem, IMO, is even with a working factory setup the seat foam disintegrates over time, blocking the airflow and reducing the effectiveness of the cooling (it's not as big a problem with heating as the warmth radiates from the seat).