How can I remedy an imbalance in my Expy's weight?

[cmk59]

I have an '07 Expy with a heavy-duty wheelchair lift attached to the trailer hitch. The lift alone weighs like 400 lbs+, but the mobility chair weighs another 300+. When going down the highway, the front end feels floaty and there's a distinct lack of control to the point where I feel like I'm more guiding it down the road in a crosswind...or sailing...one or the other. I went to the extent of replacing the struts and springs on all corners (due to availability, Bilsteins on front, Ranchos on rear)

It helped SOME, but not as much as I would've hoped. To look at it from the side, the Expy still has the same stance as before the lift was installed.

What can I do to restore the control I used to have, or at least bring it back to a more 'factory' feel? My 'mechanic' opined that the only thing he could think of was air bags, but then the back end would be hiked up so far I couldn't use the lift, as well as complicating my climbing into the driver's seat. As it is right now, I'm to the point where I'd feel better selling it in favor of a pickup - and I just replaced the cats, struts, sensors, plugs, filters, etc, etc to get it ready for another 150K!

I could really use some budget-friendly help here!

 

[Thunderbirdsport]

Heard of those leveling kits? They typically are for example a 3" front, 2" rear...used to fit bigger tires...

Point is...if you want to bring the back end up just a tad, maybe have an inch set put in the rear? They're strut spacers, not a real lift kit, per se. All they do is increase the space between the top of the strut and the frame...puts more distance between the frame and the road, like. I don't know if it would be feasible for you in this case, but it may just be what you'd want to "level" the stance. I don't think there's an option for heavy duty springs for these. Air bags might work too, but they have an added complexity of the lines, pump, etc.

With a strut spacer, it's bolt it in and forget it.

I put a leveling kit on mine, and the rears are pretty easy provided you have air tools and some bigger deep sockets. Undo the bottom shock bolt, then undo the bolt that holds the control arm to the frame near the diff. Let it swing down and wire it up out of the way. Then there's the three bolts that hold the strut/spring assy. Undo those and the strut falls out. Since you have new struts, no need to undo the spring. Just bolt on the spacer to the top and put er back in. Just put the nuts on enough to hold the assembly in place, negotiate the control arm to where you can run the shock's lower bolt through and then using a jack, raise the control arm back up. You'll need a big screwdriver to line the hole up to get the bolt back in. Once all the boltss are in place, torque them down. I think the strut bolts up on top get 30 foot pounds, the shock bolt on bottom gets a bunch...I put mine at 275, and the control arm bolt got 150.

Pretty easy, actually. If you were in north missouri i wouldn't have any issue helping you with it.

 

[Yupster Dog]

My 'mechanic' opined that the only thing he could think of was air bags

The air bags is the perfect solution. There are airbags systems with controls that deflate for loading and unloading then inflate for travel.

Not budget friendly but how much would an accident cost because you cant fully control your vehicle? Defiantly something worth your time looking into.

Extra bonus you can do little adjustments with the push of a button to get back to factory feel you are looking for.

 

[cmk59]

All well and good, but a permanent lift device would render my mobility lift unusable, so it's out. Air bags just aren't in the budget (I'm on military disability pension and my wife's a full-time teacher, so money is more than tight), especially as I'd need the on-board inflation option, and I couldn't afford bags in the first place. It was all I could do to replace the struts.

 

[Yupster Dog]

All well and good, but a permanent lift device would render my mobility lift unusable, so it's out. Air bags just aren't in the budget (I'm on military disability pension and my wife's a full-time teacher, so money is more than tight), especially as I'd need the on-board inflation option, and I couldn't afford bags in the first place. It was all I could do to replace the struts.

Thank you for your sacrifice and your service.

 

[cmk59]

I appreciate that very much, and thank you!

 

[mrbadwrench]

Does the chair stay out on the lift or go inside? If it goes inside, can you move it forward so the weight is more centered? If it stays outside I think you need to ballast the front end. Stronger springs on the rear won't put more weight on the front tires. Do you have any use for a winch or a police cowcatcher like I have or something else heavy that you can mount on the front bumper?

 

[cmk59]

The lift is hitch-mounted, and as it's over 400# it's kinda permanent. The chair doesn't stay on it, but goes inside when I'm home. There's not much room front-to-back, but I try to keep it as close to the hitch as possible when I put the chair on it.

That said, I was also thinking about a bull-bar or somesuch device, but given our incomes, it'll be awhile. I may wind up trading it to someone who has a pickup that wants an SUV, much as I've enjoyed my Expy. Even at 150K miles, it runs as well as ever and burns no oil at all, so maybe...

 

[Thunderbirdsport]

If you just want to get rid of the rake, then dependent on how much sag there is, rear strut spacers would be the cheapest "fix"...

Certainly much cheaper than an air shock, or air bag setup. Do you have a pic of it when it's fully loaded, settled in the rear? Just trying to gauge what amount the rear might need to be brought up...

 

[cmk59]

The rake isn't the issue; it's the weight imbalance caused by the chair and lift. A 'bull bar' seems to be the only option short of a full-on solid-steel bumper...

 

[Thunderbirdsport]

Wait a sec..

You said you had struts and whatnot replaced, yeah?

Was an alignment done after that?

Just having 400 pounds extra weight on the rear (extra) shouldn't affect the steering that much.
I've got probably close to that on the rear of my explorer, what with jack, tire tool, subs and amps and it doesn't even make it squat, and that's with struts of unknown vintage.

I put new struts and front upper control arms on the expedition about 2 weeks ago and it was a little squirmy until I finally got in to the alignment shop and had 'er straightened up.

But, if there's enough weight that it unloads the front, it WILL make the steering light. That's why I was suggesting the spacers in back. But in re-reading your original post, you said there's no visible rake. My guess is the alignment is out. If it's not got visible rake, then the weight on the back isn't the contributing factor in my opinion. But I may be wrong. Food for thought, sir?

 

[Boostedbus]

Wait a sec..

You said you had struts and whatnot replaced, yeah?

Was an alignment done after that?

Just having 400 pounds extra weight on the rear (extra) shouldn't affect the steering that much.
I've got probably close to that on the rear of my explorer, what with jack, tire tool, subs and amps and it doesn't even make it squat, and that's with struts of unknown vintage.

I put new struts and front upper control arms on the expedition about 2 weeks ago and it was a little squirmy until I finally got in to the alignment shop and had 'er straightened up.

But, if there's enough weight that it unloads the front, it WILL make the steering light. That's why I was suggesting the spacers in back. But in re-reading your original post, you said there's no visible rake. My guess is the alignment is out. If it's not got visible rake, then the weight on the back isn't the contributing factor in my opinion. But I may be wrong. Food for thought, sir?

I’ve got to agree it’s an alignment issue. I’ve towed numerous times with a substantial amount of tongue weight and have never felt what’s described. I also use a hitch basket often hauling heavy stuff and never a symptom.

 

[Trainmaster]

WHen you check the alignment also check the rear suspension parts. Any damage to rear bushings can cause the rear to wander and you'll go nuts trying to steer straight or find the problem. Ask anyone who has owned an Excursion.

 

[Thunderbirdsport]

That's exactly what was wrong with mine. Then one night we decided to go out to eat, and a couple of friends went with us. It was slick. We made it about a mile before we turned back and got in the Explorer, the expedition felt like it was about to break the rear loose and do 360s in the snow. VERY confidence inspiring.

Yeah, once it was aligned though, full speed ahead, balls out, no worries.

 

[Plati]

This one is way over my head but a thought I had was that when I removed all the second row seats and the 2/3 seat in 3rd row ... that took a lot of weight out. The Expy certainly felt lighter and more nimble after that. Remove seats to remove weight?

Run with gas tank 1/4 full? A gallon of gazoline is 6 pounds. 21 gallons is 126 pounds.

Remove the spare tire? I carry no spare tire in my 2003. It's rusted beyond belief and I didnt want it getting worse. I only drive local and it can be fetched from home if ever needed. I suppose you could strap it on roof too. That would not only remove weight from rear but add weight forward. A 2'fer. I hate the thought of a spare tire flying off the roof in an accident though.

Another thought (kinda bizarre though) is I recalled when I used to work on an oval track late model race car (long time ago) ... they had big lead weights they would bolt in specific locations on the chassis to manage weight distribution... I think that was for always turning left.

Main thought I had which is also probably not practical is buy the correct vehicle for the task. If the Expy is not working out ... I assume some other vehicle is better?

just brainstorming

 

[Kjhawkeye1]

Could give these a try too.

https://www.etrailer.com/susp-2011_Ford_Expedition.htm?&Redirect=8

 

[JamaicaJoe]

Since you have already ditched the 3rd row seat, I would ditch the spare, the Jack and the crank mechanism for lifting the spare. You are calling AAA anyway. Get rid of weight aft of the rear axle.

Take the vehicle to a commercial scale and get weight for each corner measured.

You might find you can run a couple lbs less air in the rear tires if you are well below gross vehicle weight.

But do get the entire steering and suspension checked out because these vehicles have problems enough with worn steering gear.

Also, my Expy loses traction in rear when the tires get old. The rubber hardens and making a u turn under power causes oversteer.

Sent from my SM-T350 using Tapatalk

 

[chuck s]

Start looking for a commercial van. The Expedition is not up to this task.

Only solution is to balance the weights on each end. (1) decrease weight on the rear or (2) increase weight on the front and it appears neither is gonna work.

700 pounds on the trailer hitch is like towing a 7000 pound trailer which requires a weight distribution hitch to put weight back on the steering axle to avoid that "floaty" feeling. WDH won't work without a trailer, though, and springs, airbags, and other devices/gimmicks on the rear axle can "level" the truck but that's merely visual and the front end will still be light. Gimmicks that work on pickups -- where the weight is between the axles -- don't work when the weight is outside the axles hanging off the rear bumper.

Please note that if you add 700 pounds the the front axle you'll exceed the capacity of the truck which, if it's like my '17 only has a maximum cargo and passenger weight capacity of a bit over 1400 pounds.

-- Chuck

 

[jimz]

It might help to look for a lighter carrier. A rack weighing 400 pounds might weigh less if you can find an aluminum one.

I had a powered carrier, with a swing away arm to access the rear. I eventually removed the swing away arm. That helped some. Then I went to a drive on, non powered aluminum carrier. All went fine after that. The only solution is to reduce weight.

 

[mjp2]

http://www.coilsprings.com/ will make you a set of stiffer springs to fit your specific application. I had a set of 900# springs made for my 2010 with +1" ride height and they're perfect.

Price came in under $500 shipped and installation took me about 2 hours in the driveway. I'm familiar with the process of swapping coils and have all the tools on hand but it's still not a big job.

Fill out their online form and it should get you close to where you want to be. When I did it they followed up for some further clarification before moving forward. My truck tows beautifully now.