I have questions about Electric fans

[LameSuburbanDad]

I bought 2 separate 16 inch fans (unsure of the CFM's) and a Jegs dual fan harness. the questions I have are as follows;

What else do I need to ensure Both fans run when I turn on the A/C?

this next one is more of a concern than a question, I hear talk that removing the entire fan shroud can lead to cooling problems later (something about the air not being directed onto the engine as well)
has anyone encountered this?
was it just talk?
do I trim the shroud to fit then re-install?

the harness is a Jegs.com part # 555-10570
the vehicle is a 1999 Expedition Eddie Bauer

 

[panda24619]

should have told me before you did this. i could have sold you my dual fan harness for $100. but its not jegs. its flex a lite if i remember right. and theres a youtube video on how to install it. haha and nope never herd of a problem with the shroud being taken off and the engine not cooling right. also make sure you get fan ties. haha and make sure the fans are 12V and not 24V like mine are... with i knew that at the time. o well. i have everything to install my fans but the fans. haha

 

[Thermo]

DJ, I have done the e-fan mod to my truck. I have been running it that way for 11 years now and no cooling issues that are directly related to the fans (just make sure to get a good quality controller for each fan, any questions, just ask). As for keeping the shroud on the radiator, I would actually advise against that unless you are going with like a 20" fan that would get mounted in the opening of the shroud. Anything else and you are asking for more problems than fixes.

Also, keep in mind that you need to be pulling atleast 3,000 cfm of air. More is ok, less can lead to problems. As for wiring, as long as you have a means to measure the coolant temp, a good source of power (either directly off of the battery-how most people do it, or via the fuse box-how I did it), and the power getting to the controller(s), all will take care of itself. Granted, I will advise that you tap into the wiring going to the A/C compressor upstream of the overpressure switch. This will ensure that the fans will run any time the A/C is turned on, yet, not cycle the fans on/off with the compressor or during an overpressure condition.

if you want to know more about e-fans, let me know. I'll answer anything that you have a question about. One thing that I would advise being installed which will not be part of any kit that you buy is a status light for each controller that you are using. This will give you a few minutes warning before you start having an overheat condition. I also use it to keep an eye on when the fans are running so I known when to take it a little easier on the truck when 4x4ing.

 

[LameSuburbanDad]

yes! that is just the kind of info I was hoping for.

wiring into the A/C as described eliminates the need to by MORE stuff which adds to the FAILURE rate. things us men try to avoid. thank you

I will be contacting you over the next fews days "THERMO" to pick your brain on what I have, what it can do, and what I might could still use/need.

thanks again.

 

[tonydiv]

The whole reason to have a shroud is to pull air through the entire radiator, not just the area covered by the fan. However if you have enough of the radiator covered by fans, you can still get good cooling. (but there are still going to be a lot of dead areas in the corners, etc that aren't getting airflow)

The reason that you to wire it in to the a/c circuit is because that coil needs airflow to make the system run efficiently. Don't bypass this just to keep it simple. Otherwise whenever you are stopped, the a/c will start to warm up.



The best setup out there is the flex-a-lite dual fan kit with shroud. It moves 5500 cfm of air. The problem is that I haven't been able to find it anywhere for less than about $550.

 

[Thermo]

Tony, you are correct in that the shroud helps move air through the whole radiator. This is vital in extremely hot conditions or when you are pushing the truck for a long period of time. I don't see it as a problem since if you are pushing the truck for a long period of time, you more than likely are doing over 30 mph which there is more air flow through the radiator than the fans can provide. So, you are getting airflow over the whole radiator from the air passing in through the grill. If you are sitting at a stop, the amount of heat the engine is making is very minimal (limited amount from combustion, some leftover from just slowing down, and then the A/C system). As long as you are keeping a majority of the radiator covered by the fans, this heat load isn't a problem. Hell, I found out (the hard way), that a single 14" e-fan pulling 1500 cfm of air is almost enough air flow to handle stop and go traffic with the A/C on high in 100F weather. But, that was when one of my controllers wasn't playing nice and I was on a single controller (I run dual controllers set off from each other by 5F roughly).

So, you do bring up good points to consider and if you were using the truck as a farm truck where you are doing low speed, heavy hauls a lot, then the shroud would be a good idea. May be advantageous for those that 4x4 a lot. But, for the average Joe, the shroud isn't needed provided he covers most of the radiator with the fans.

 

[tonydiv]

You're right, for over a dozen years I ran my Scout II (with a 440 big block) with 4 10" fans without any shroud. It covered probably 85% of the radiator and with the exception of a burned out relay, I never had overheating issues, even on the trails.

One of the tricks I used was to put heavy foam tape around the edges of the fans, so that it was sealed to the radiator. That way the air had to go through the radiator instead of engine compartment air coming in from the sides of the fans and getting recircluated. I also found that my puller fans worked best when they were about a 3/8 of an inch away from the radiator. (the original reason for the heavy foam tape)

 

[LameSuburbanDad]

all excellent points. so for my perticular lifestyle....

Are we in agreement that,
with two 16 inch fans (pulling 1500+ cfm each) and the dual harness I have + wiring-in at the proper spot for the A/C, MINUS the whole shroud,
= my truck staying cool at all outside temps under normal driving (stop and go to 80 on the H-way), light off-roading, and regular class 2 towing trailers. (3,500lbs. max for any new guys or anyone who just didn't know.)???

another concern(s) is/are that I live in Michigan, we are known for our Winters.
What can I expect my fans to go through with NO shroud?
what sort (if any) of extra maintenance will be required to keep them operational?

Here is a brief summary of my Exp. usage.
stop and go, highway with cruise control, 3-6 hour trips to the cabin up north or to visit family in OH or KY. surface street use (35-55mph), and sometimes I tow a trailer with 2 ATV's and some extra gear (200-400lbs tops), I do the odd other tow every now and again like every driver also nothing super strenuous though.
(the hardest tow I ever did was pulling a loaded beer truck up a hill on the highway in bumper-to-bumper traffic one morning in the dead of winter. I had 4wL on, was spinning all 4 tires and the driver helped out too, but we made it up and out of the way for traffic to get through, I was a hero to about 500 people that morning. THANK YOU FORD. ha ha

but I digress, sometimes I will push another vehicle if needed, basically I use my truck for what it was built for. but it is NOT my daily driver, or a work truck, it is my weekend warrior, my go-to road trip machine, my fun when I get there, my pride and joy when I tinker on it. ( I keep it well cleaned and VERY well maintained, I have every other bolt on upgrade at this point to, I plan to get MANY years of trouble free service from this titan of an SUV)
so anything else I should worry about? if not, I'm having these fans installed today.

 

[tonydiv]

I'd like a little more cfm, but I think you'll be ok.

You can always adjust one (or both) fan(s) to come on at a lower temp to help compensate for the slightly lower cfm.

Of the 4 fans on my scout, only one ever failed in 12 years of being my daily driver (including Northeast Ohio winters). Replaced the motor and never had another issue. That is the beauty of multiple fans, if one dies you aren't stuck on the side of the road in a cloud of steam.

 

[LameSuburbanDad]

OK, I made an appointment today to have the fans installed.

I looked a little closer for some sort of paperwork on them but came up short, so I looked again on the eBay and found that they advertise the fan I bought at 2,500 CFM each. Even if they over rate it (which I'm sure they have) I can safely assume that the total should be well above 3,000 CFM. I worry no longer about the shroud. thanks fellas.

 

[panda24619]

you can do it your self. its not that hard of a task. but still. have the pros do it you ya. im in the market for some new 16" fans. finding out mine are 24V killed my plans... what ever. i know i want them before i go on any long desert trek coming up this year. haha

 

[Thermo]

DJ, one thing I will caution you on, a lot of members have had bad luck with the wire wound controllers (I had problems with mine). So, spend a few extra dollars and get the kind that has a built in relay and will look like a black box with a small potentiometer on the side/corner. Yes, they cost a little more, but the savings from not having to deal with wiping the controller every 6 months and then figuring out where to put it back to is well worth it to me. There are fancier ones out there, but from my point of view, you don't really need them. KISS.

 

[LameSuburbanDad]

I already have a kit for it, dual relays, dual breakers, and a thread-in type temperature sensor. Would you consider it adequate?

http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS+Performance+Products/555/10570/10002/-1

or if you're uncomfortable clicking strange links, you can visit jegs.com and search part number 555-10570 it will show you exactly the same thing.

 

[Thermo]

dj, as long as you have a spot to put in the temp sensor, then I say go for it. The ones I got had a small metal bulb that I shoved into the upper passenger corner of the radiator. But that should do you good. The only issue I see is that the setup is either for both fans running or both fans off. There are some pros and cons for doing it this way. BUt, it works and isn't wrong. So, go for it and don't look back. I think you will like the added power down low in the truck.

The big thing that I don't like about that setup is you have fixed temps. So, no adjusting the turn on temps. BUt hey, that should be an easy kit to install, so, have fun.

 

[LameSuburbanDad]

Thermo, I would enjoy knowing those pros, and cons.

If it should have a true dual control (separately turns each fan on/off as needed to cool) then I will send that kit back to jegs and buy another.

however if the cons are minimal then I could always just change my thermostat to a unit with a higher open temp. the fans can run both on/off but the coolant temp can still rise high enough to give me quick heat in the dead of winter.

so as long as I don't see any problems with the cons of having this type of controller my appointment for this Friday will remain unchanged.

I do have a questions about the wiring though. the kit comes with a thread-in type temperature sensor. the question is, where does it thread in at? and does it require a hole to be drilled and tapped first?

If anyone has one or could take one, I would really like to see a picture for visual reference.

 

[Thermo]

DJ, the pros is that with individual fan controllers, it isn't as hard on the electrical system as you have 2 smaller starts vice 1 big start. Also, you don't always need the full air flow of 2 fans. So, you will get longer life out of the fans if you only need 1 running as you can flip flop back and forth. ALso, going with adjustable temps, you can set them a little bit higher, therefore leading to less times they will kick on/off.

The cons I was talking about really deal with the type of controller. The wire wound ones will corrode up on you and cause the controller to slowly drift to a higher temp turn on point. Obviously, this is bad. That is why I recommend the electronic controllers.

What you have works just fine. I just like the dual, separate controllers. But, that is a personal preference. There are more than a few ways to get the same thing.

 

[LameSuburbanDad]

and what about the threaded temp. sensor?

 

[Thermo]

That is something that you will need to answer yourself. It should be up on the top of the engine. You should be able to slide that into the heater core hose (seem to remember it having a smaller size tube that the sensor went in). Otherwise, you need to look at the size of adapter that they have for the temp sensor and see what hose that it would fit into. Without it in my hands, hard to say where it would fit. You just want to make sure that you are getting the hose where the water is coming into the radiator.

 

[BakerEdition]

was referred to this website and when I get ready to take off the factory fan...I will buy the these guys have... http://www.troyerperformance.com/cgi-bin/ppistore.pl?user_action=detail&catalogno=PPI-EFK

 

[KWT2000]

thats alot of cash... im into my set up for $130