Is all the "fuel saving" tech really worth it in the long run?

[TobyU]

Or like saying that pollution isn’t an issue because garbage no longer washing up on your beaches or because China has pollution too.

Now you get it! Some don't care how the air is/was is CA as long as the air in their (far away) state is.

But you have to be cautious and pessimistic just as others would be proactive because the states with no problems get rules and regs pushed on them due to stuff occurring in CA- at least that is the pessimistic proactive way to look at it.

 

[carymccarr]

Now you get it!

I assure you I recognize many don’t possess even a 4th grade grasp of how our entire ecosystem (including water cycles and atmospheric level pollution) is connected.

 

[TobyU]

I assure you I recognize many don’t possess even a 4th grade grasp of how our entire ecosystem (including water cycles and atmospheric level pollution) is connected.

You always go back to saying that people don't understand. Just like so many people do when you don't agree with bare philosophy or refuse to change your mind to theirs.
They tell you things like once you realize, once you understand, when you become educated on the matter, and similar phrases. Then will you won't change your mind they demonize you and insult you.
I never considered that you might not realize that there's lots of idiots in the world and people that don't grasp lots of Concepts but do you realize there's plenty of people out there who understand just fine, they just don't care very much. Some don't care at all.
And the biggest thing to realize about this is that they are entitled to their opinion.
They aren't necessarily allowed to pollute the world because they don't care but they certainly have the right to not be concerned for the future.

 

[bobmbx]

I assure you I recognize many don’t possess even a 4th grade grasp of how our entire ecosystem (including water cycles and atmospheric level pollution) is connected.

But you do.

Check. Thanks.

 

[TobyU]

But you do.

Check. Thanks.

Realizing and understanding doesn't mean someone is required to care about others in the community or World in which they live. This also applies for future members.
You might say everyone has a social responsibility but that's simply an opinion. No one is required to care about their or their children's future or anyone else is future for that matter.

 

[carymccarr]

But you do.

Check. Thanks.

Uh, yeah. I took 4th grade science.

 

[carymccarr]

you might not realize that there's lots of idiots in the world and people that don't grasp lots of Concepts

I’m COMPLETELY aware of this fact.

there's plenty of people out there who understand just fine, they just don't care very much. Some don't care at all.

This too I’m very well aware of.

 

[TobyU]

I’m COMPLETELY aware of this fact.




This too I’m very well aware of.

And as I started, I appreciate the fact that some people feel this way and I appreciate the fact that some people are extreme tree huggers.
I guess I mean I appreciate the fact that they can feel that way and I give them every right to do so. Appreciate doesn't mean I fully support the ideas or the actions but their choice to have them.

 

[carymccarr]

And as I started, I appreciate the fact that some people feel this way and I appreciate the fact that some people are extreme tree huggers.
I guess I mean I appreciate the fact that they can feel that way and I give them every right to do so. Appreciate doesn't mean I fully support the ideas or the actions but their choice to have them.

People have every right to be ignorant.

But when that ignorance leads to causing harm outside of their own 4 walls it becomes an societal issue.

 

[grumpyoleman]

This thread has grown legs of its own and is traveling quite far afield. But since we are there … it has become the hallmark of our modern culture that we automatically assume that anyone who disagrees with our own perspective or suppositions is either ignorant, stupid or a drooling caveman. I am a doddering old man who actually likes to hear different opinions but I will admit, the moment I read, hear or see someone dismiss alternative opinions as uneducated, foolish or any other pejorative, I dismiss them as narrow minded and bigoted. Present company included.

 

[carymccarr]

This thread has grown legs of its own and is traveling quite far afield. But since we are there … it has become the hallmark of our modern culture that we automatically assume that anyone who disagrees with our own perspective or suppositions is either ignorant, stupid or a drooling caveman. I am a doddering old man who actually likes to hear different opinions but I will admit, the moment I read, hear or see someone dismiss alternative opinions as uneducated, foolish or any other pejorative, I dismiss them as narrow minded and bigoted. Present company included.

What’s become a hallmark of modern culture is believing that everyone can be right. Or that facts are pliable. Or that opinions are equivalent to facts.

Its an outgrowth of the ‘everyone gets a trophy’ mentality.

Some views ARE based on ignorance. Some opinions ARE based on a bias.

Someone may hold the opinion that dumping pollution into a river or sky in one state has no impact on the same river or sky across the state line...

But that doesn’t make that opinion a reality.

 

[TobyU]

People have every right to be ignorant.

But when that ignorance leads to causing harm outside of their own 4 walls it becomes an societal issue.

I didn't think we were talking about ignorance. I was talking about people being quite aware of how the ecosystem and waterways and pollution work in the country just choosing not to have much concern for the repercussions. That is not ignorance. Quite a few things that can be called but ignorant is not one of them.
People are quick to throw the word ignorant around because it's a nice condescending hateful term that helps them demean people who's opinions and ideas don't match up with theirs. when in reality it only means uninformed for unaware of a topic.
I'm talking about people who are not ignorant and are fully aware of the way things work but simply don't give a crap.

 

[TobyU]

This thread has grown legs of its own and is traveling quite far afield. But since we are there … it has become the hallmark of our modern culture that we automatically assume that anyone who disagrees with our own perspective or suppositions is either ignorant, stupid or a drooling caveman. I am a doddering old man who actually likes to hear different opinions but I will admit, the moment I read, hear or see someone dismiss alternative opinions as uneducated, foolish or any other pejorative, I dismiss them as narrow minded and bigoted. Present company included.

I agree for a large part. Talking about things we don't necessarily agree on at least opens the debate and sometimes causes us to learn things. Or maybe, at least we can see or try to see someone else's viewpoint.
What I can't stand is society's and so many people's constant push to change someone's difference of opinion. Then when that doesn't work they give up on them and call them names, stupid, bigoted, whatever else like you mentioned.

 

[carymccarr]

I didn't think we were talking about ignorance.

I'm talking about people who are not ignorant and are fully aware of the way things work but simply don't give a crap.

You sure?

you might not realize that there's lots of idiots in the world and people that don't grasp lots of Concepts

 

[TobyU]

What’s become a hallmark of modern culture is believing that everyone can be right. Or that facts are pliable. Or that opinions are equivalent to facts.

Its an outgrowth of the ‘everyone gets a trophy’ mentality.

Some views ARE based on ignorance. Some opinions ARE based on a bias.

Someone may hold the opinion that dumping pollution into a river or sky in one state has no impact on the same river or sky across the state line...

But that doesn’t make that opinion a reality.

I will never say it's wrong to base an opinion on biases. Opinions pretty much equal biases in my experience. That's why we call them opinions or preferences.
If someone hates cauliflower and they say cauliflower sucks then they are totally inaccurate because some people like cauliflower so it's not bad or terrible or sucks but they don't buy cauliflower or anything with cauliflower in it because they don't like cauliflower. They are bias against cauliflower and they are discriminating against the cauliflower growers in the world and they are hurting the feelings of all the little heads of cauliflower that are growing in the fields but it's not wrong for them to not buy cauliflower. They don't like it. No one should tell them they have to like it. No one should tell them they have to buy it.
Can't we just accept that there are people who are just lousy human beings who don't like people because of their sex, sexuality, race, religion, national origin ..
.it's funny as I state this it reminds me of that basically that's everything we put on the protected class lists.
We have passed laws to prevent certain people from doing what comes natural for certain humans to do. As I've said forever a certain amount of racism is natural. Birds of a feather flock together. It works this way in all Races, nationalities, civilizations.
But can't we just admit that there are lousy human beings out there and it doesn't matter how or why they have their philosophies or what they base there beliefs and preferences on. We're certainly not going to allow a lot of them to act on these beliefs but then we have these religious groups that are able to hide behind religion and do all kinds of discriminatory acts because of their religion. I think that's just as much BS.

 

[carymccarr]

Then when that doesn't work they give up on them and call them names, stupid, bigoted,

Or idiots.

you might not realize that there's lots of idiots in the world

 

[TobyU]

You sure?

But nearby in the conversation I pointed out that there's plenty of people that know but just don't care.
Isn't that a worse problem?

 

[carymccarr]

[QUOTE="TobyU, post: 369086, member: 45109"
If someone hates cauliflower and they say cauliflower sucks then they are totally inaccurate because some people like cauliflower so it's not bad or terrible or sucks but they don't buy cauliflower or anything with cauliflower in it because they don't like cauliflower.[/QUOTE]

This doesn’t have to do with whether someone likes a certain vegtable or not.

It has to do with your right to dump poison into the sky above your house that then floats over to my house.

Your opinion that poisonous air isn’t bad doesn’t change the reality that it is in fact bad.

 

[TobyU]

You sure?

Also, you need not bother going back and looking up things that I've said to somehow say I'm wrong because I said something contradictory previously. I could care less what I say or have said. I retain the right to change my comments, opinions, or views on life at any given moment with no need to inform you.
I have a friend who "knows everything" and likes to do that. I have to remind him that I never claim to be consistent and we already know that I don't always support facts.
Maybe you should go back and quote me where I prefaced anything I'm going to say with everything is my opinion, preference, observations on life, and based mostly on what I have witnessed or experienced in my own little Realm of the world.
I'll leave that Realm capitalized because it's my Realm.

 

[carymccarr]

But nearby in the conversation I pointed out that there's plenty of people that know but just don't care.
Isn't that a worse problem?

Willful and aggressive ignorance is a problem these days for sure. The eschewing of facts for feelings has created an entire movement of people who simply label something as ‘fake’ if it hurts their feelings or doesn’t integrate well to their opinions and worldview.

At the end of the day though, whether someone is dumping poison into the environment due to their ignorance or simply because they don’t care, the outcome is the same.