Landmark Ford service needs an overhaul

[Shaggy]

There is nothing more I hate than having my time wasted. I work a tight schedule and many hours. For me to take time off from my daily routine is a big issue. Landmark Ford in Tigard Oregon knows just how to push my buttons.

Last week I made an appointment to have my 03 Expedition serviced This Monday. This included the replacing of the brake pads with the updated version which produce less dust. When I made my appointment, the service rep was very friendly and advised me that the pads are a ware item which I would have to pay for. I was well aware of that. So, e booked me with my service rep for this Monday. I took time off to drop the vehicle off for the repairs. The service advisor knew nothing about the TSB regarding the brake pads. He was reluctant to admit the SB existed and had a difficult time writing up the service order. He was making it difficult for me to get my point across about the TSB. I finally stepped in and said this is something I am paying for. Afterwards he proceeded to write up the order and was ready to take my key. Having experienced poor customer service ere before, I asked him to verify the pads are in stock. He made a call to the parts department and said if I wanted the pads they would need to be special ordered. Now I am beginning to lose my temper. This is uncalled for. A simple phone call from him early in the day would have saved me a trip to the dealer. But it seems some people cannot think ahead or see beyond a step by step instruction book. This has happened to me in the past. Last time they had my car for 1 day before letting me know the parts were not in. This is very poor customer service and it sows that there is no regards for the customers time. I grade Landmark Ford a C- to a D for their customer service. When I have more time I will tell you about my ordeal with my van. Which I told them what was actually wrong and they did not fix. Stay tuned for more.

 

[daveplot]

A very similar thing happened to me at Sherwood Ford that ended up with me writing these letters to the customer relations manager back in August 03. After they finally put the parts on I went back to my selling dealer for service.

Letter 1
I wanted to bring a few problems to someone’s attention. I have had my truck in for repair for three problems. The first was diagnosed properly the first time, while the second and third were not.

The second was for extreme brake dust. I was told by the first Service Advisor that this was normal and every vehicle does it. I told him that this was not true and to have someone look at it. When I went to pickup the truck I was told there was no problem. I asked to speak with the manager and was given Brian Bishop. He told me that he would look into the problem and call me the next day. This never happened. I returned four days later and found that he is no longer the service manager and now works in sales. I spoke with him and he said he would forward the complaint to the new manager. A week after speaking with him the first time I returned and asked for the new service manager, who wasn’t in that day. I ended up speaking with the parts manager.

The parts manager was very nice and looked up my truck on OASIS. While she was looking it up another Service Advisor told me that there was no problem with the brake pads and every Ford does it. After telling him that the Expedition and Navigator have more than any other Ford, he still didn’t believe me and continued to say there was nothing wrong. Shortly thereafter the parts manager found there was a service bulletin stating that Ford recognizes my problem and will be fixing it with a new design near the end of this year.

At my latest appointment I was trying to have a squeaking sound diagnosed and repaired. I dropped off the car at 8am and received a call stating it was finished at 4pm. Upon arrival I found that the problem wasn’t fixed. I spoke with the new Service manager who said there isn’t much he could do, since they couldn’t find the problem. I requested a rental car which he declined, even though I have a Ford ESP which covers rental cars. The manager decided to send the technician for a ride with me.

During that ride the technician heard the noise but said there isn’t anything he could do. I returned to the service department and paid for my oil change. When I returned home I called the manager directly and spoke with him. He said to bring it in again tomorrow (Thursday 8/7) and they would look at it again. After not starting to work on the truck until 1pm the problem was found and part ordered. It would not have taken two days for this problem to be diagnosed if more time was spent the first time.

After spending about $45,000 on this new Expedition I expected better service and not to have advisors tell me I’m wrong. I would like to know why I was denied a rental car for the latest repair, and why Brian Bishop decided to ignore me, and not forward my complaint.

Letter 2
I received your phone call last week. Unfortunately, I will be extremely busy this week, but hopefully I will be able to set up an appointment with you next week. Below is an update since my last letter.

In the end of my last letter, I informed you about the squeaking problem. I had an appointment for August 13. When I arrived at the dealership, I asked the service advisor to check to see if the parts for the repair have been received. He told me that one of the two has and that I should setup another appointment in a week. By then the parts should be in. I asked why appointments are made before knowing if the parts would be in or not, to which he had no answer. I made an appointment for August 25.

On August 25, I arrived at the dealership and spoke with the same service advisor. I again asked if the parts were in, and he checked. After a few minutes, he returned and said the second part still has not arrived. I asked for either the service or the parts manager and was ignored. I again asked why appointments were made before knowing the status of the parts. He replied with a general answer that they should be in by now. He also gave me the excuse that the dealership may be having these problems because of the move from Berlin.

After this, I went over to the parts department myself to find out the status. When I arrived, I spoke with Kevin, who looked up my order in the computer and found that it had not been shipped and something mysterious had happened. He decided to place another order for the part, which was to be shipped from New York.

Today, August 26, I stopped by the parts department around 5pm and found that Kevin had just called to let me know my parts are in. I asked if I could take the parts with me to another dealer to be installed. The Parts manager told me that Ford does not allow the customer to take parts for a warranty repair, which does make sense. After hearing the story about it taking three weeks to get the part she decided to lookup the order to find out what happened, but found to be either a user or computer error. She then continued to make sure the part ordered was the correct one. As she did this, she found that the parts were for the second row seat, not the third, as they should be.

She said that she would find the technician, pull my paperwork, and find out what happened and would call me to tell me if they would be able to fix the problem at my appointment Thursday August 28.

When parts are ordered the service advisor should follow up before the scheduled appointment to see if the parts have arrived. If they are not, the customer should be notified. Because of this one repair, I have had to rearrange my schedule four times, which is unacceptable.

 

[Guest]

JT,

I can tell you where a little upset. And rightly so! Your spelling was not up to your ususal 6th grade level. HA! Just kidding.

I know what you mean. It's not just the auto industry though. I work in Heating service and I hear it all the time. "No one called to tell me you were going to be late." "No one told me it would be two weeks" So on and so forth! I hear both from customers and vendors. Enough to make you go postal. It seems too much the left hand doesn't know or even care what the right hand is doing.

On a side note: A recent "good" trip to a dealership service department. I had a pats key made at Mathews Ford in Asheville, NC and was pleasently satisfied. They only charged $20 for the key and $35 to program it. Other dealers in area wanted a full hour at $85 to $90 to program it.

LOL, and I hope you get things straightened out.

 

[monsta]

Originally posted by prcrboy
They only charged $20 for the key and $35 to program it.

These type of stories make me VERY leary of dealers!!

(You coulda programmed the key yourself.)

 

[Guest]

Monsta,

Sorry, you cannot program the key unless you have TWO keys, I only had one. Requires the diagnostic module to program the first two.

 

[monsta]

Oh, thought you already had two...

 

[Guest]

jt,
Can I ask you how much you paid for parts and labor for the new pads ?
Thanks Greg

 

[Shaggy]

Well,

That was a big shock to me. My total bill was 589.00 of which 4 hours of labor was charged at 57.00. So about 361.00 for parts. Which I think is a ripp off. It was 2 something for pads then pins and clips and so on. I ended up having an argument with them when I picked up the vehicle. This is why ... I dropped the vehicle off at 5:00 pm for the work. I received a call at 6:50 that the car was ready. to me thats less than 2 hours of work. Yet they billed me for 4 hours. They kept say its a flat rate. None the less, I have my new brakes but am very disatisfied with what it took and cost to get them.

 

[rwinch]

To all, I highly recommend NOT TO GO TO THE DEALERESHIP for brake work. Just as jt found out, you simply get ripped off. :reddevil:

This is what I found out by going to dealerships:
1) They overcharge. Face it, brake work is simple. We all have probably changed brakes ourselves when we were younger and had more time on our hands, so we know how simple it is.

2) Guess what, no real warranty. That is because they are "wear items". At the least, if you go to a retail tire shop like NTB, you get a 3 year warranty on the work, including the pads.

3) You generally pay a lot more for stuff that really is not any better than what you can buy at NAPA.

Its the same way for shocks. I once asked my dealership, "how much to install a new set of shocks?" (I figured 50-60 bucks). Answer: "$300". Your out of your mind I said. I went to NTB, bought a set of Monroes (for less than I could get them at Trak Auto), and becasue I bought them there, they installed them for free. I saved $300!!

Some things just should not be done at the dealership. And please don't give the story (you dealership guys on this forum know who I am talking about), about how much better it is to go to the dealership because of the trained mechanics and such. It just does not apply to brakes and shocks and the like.

I have found, that unless you are still under the trucks original warranty (or factory extended warranty), find a GOOD local shop and use them.

Example of a good shop. This last weekend I just happened to be driving around near the shop I use, and the Check Engine light came on....Uh Oh. So I popped in and asked if they could pop the scanner on and tell me what was wrong? No problem..they pulled a guy out of the bays, he popped the scanner on, told me I have a slow acting Oxygen Sensor and cleared the codes. Try to ask a dealership to do that!!!

 

[Greg B.]

JT,
I asked my dealer here in Astoria to see if there was a TSB on the Brake dust issue. The service manager just said, well it is a problem but she didn't think there is a TSB. So is there one and if so what is the number?
I just had the 10,000 mile check and I think they forgot to rotate the tires also.

 

[cnuttgirl]

you can go to www.alldata.com to find the TSB's for your particular make/model. it should list all TSB's not just recent one's.

 

[daveplot]

Article No.
04-1-1 BRAKES - BRAKE DUST - REVISED BRAKE LININGS - VEHICLES BUILT PRIOR TO 12/18/2003

Publication Date: January 5, 2004

FORD: 2003-2004 EXPEDITION
LINCOLN: 2003-2004 NAVIGATOR

ISSUE:
Customer dissatisfaction with brake dust level on vehicles produced before 12/18/2003.

The brake linings on 2003-2004 Expedition/Navigator vehicles are designed to interact with the brake rotors in such a way as to keep the rotors smooth, minimizing rotor runout and thickness variation. The brake dust that is generated as a result of this interaction does not indicate a performance concern with the vehicle's brake system, and is considered a normal condition by Ford Motor Company.

Ford Motor Company recognizes, however, that some customers may object to brake dust for appearance reasons. Effective 12/18/03, the brake linings on Expedition/Navigator have been revised. The revised linings will generate less dust. The revised linings are also being made available for service, as Service Kit 4L1Z-2001-BA. This kit contains BOTH front and rear linings. A coordinated front and rear lining change is required in order to avoid making the vehicle noncompliant with Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standard 135. Do not mix the parts in the 4L1Z-2001-BA kit with any other brake linings.

Per the Warranty and Policy Manual, parts and labor needed to maintain the vehicle due to normal wear and tear are the responsibility of the vehicle owner, and are not covered under the New Vehicle Limited Warranty. Because brake dust is due to normal wear and tear, replacing brake linings for a dust condition is not covered under bumper-to-bumper coverage. For 2003 MY Navigator customers the Lincoln Commitment covers normal brake wear (but not brake dust) for 3 years/36,000 miles, whichever occurs first. Some ESP plans may also cover worn brake linings. Consult OASIS to see if brake linings are covered as a provision of the customer's plan. Again, brake linings may be replaced for wear, but replacement of linings for a brake dust condition is not covered by either the New Vehicle Warranty, Lincoln Commitment, or ESP.

ACTION:
Replace brake linings, and ancillary parts if necessary, with revised brake linings.

SERVICE PROCEDURE
Follow instructions included in Kit 4L1Z-2001-BA and Workshop Manual Sections 206-03 and 206-04.

NOTE: A COORDINATED FRONT AND REAR LINING CHANGE IS REQUIRED IN ORDER TO AVOID MAKING THE VEHICLE NONCOMPLIANT WITH FEDERAL MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY STANDARD 135. DO NOT USE THE 4L1Z-2001-BA PART NUMBER WITH ANY OTHER REAR BRAKE LINING.

NOTE: IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO MACHINE THE ROTORS BEFORE INSTALLING THE NEW LININGS, UNLESS OTHERWISE DIRECTED BY THE WORKSHOP MANUAL.

NOTE: VEHICLES BUILT BEFORE JULY 15, 2003 MAY REQUIRE REPLACEMENT OF THE HOLD-DOWN CLIP, AND RETAINING PINS, THE FIRST TIME THE BRAKE LININGS ARE REPLACED. SERVICE KIT 4L1Z-2001-BA KIT CONTAINS DETAILS ON HOW TO DETERMINE IF THESE PARTS MUST BE CHANGED. YOU MAY WISH TO ORDER THESE PARTS ALONG WITH THE BRAKE LINING KITS, TO AVOID REPAIR DELAYS.

PART NUMBER PART NAME
4L1Z-2001-BA Brake Lining Kit
2L1Z-2B164-AB Clip - Hold Down
2L1Z-2C150-AC Kit - Retaining Pin


OTHER APPLICABLE ARTICLES:
NONE

WARRANTY STATUS:
INFORMATION ONLY

 

[Greg B.]

Thanks for the Brake Info.

 

[cnuttgirl]

before you to the break repair yourself, read this:

http://flatratetech.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=13;t=003774

just something to keep in mind!!

 

[Smiggs]

Up here in the Great White North our Ford Dealerships are no better. I currently have a co-worker who has his Mustang GT at one of the Ford Dealerships here for over a week. He was to have new gears installed and everything in came in the kit. ( speedo gear, shims, oil etc.) Now he is waiting for parts that the technician had to apprently "break" off, some sort of speed sensor for the ABS. So he was qouted like 4-6 hours ( 300-400 dollars) is now well over 600.00. The real kicker is that he had to take time off of work to go into the dealership and demand that he get a courtsey car, it wasn't even offered to him after the first 4 days they had his car. I have also had run-ins with the same dealership and I agree with every comment about not taking your vehicles to the dealerships for repairs. Good luck to everyone on this thread on getting your problems rectified.

 

[3 NAILS 1 CROSS]

i feel for you JT , i dont have enough time to write my sob story right now but i will tell you this , NEVER NEVER buy a ford xp from a dodge dealer, they cant even fix window regulator or alignment, SAD SAD