Misfire under load.

[Brenneman2385]

Hello All,

I have been searching the forums for about a month trying to find resolutions to my current issue. I have an 08 XLT EL with about 199,000 on it. I purchased this with high miles and it was a fleet from what my research could find. I have had it about 6 months and one day at a stop sign, had all kinds of misfires, and died 2 times. Was not able to get it to run correctly until about 8 hours later. After researching found it could be the VCT’s. Removed and installed 2 new Motorcraft VCT’s, and after this I noticed that when I would place the truck in gear after warming up it would start to misfire. If I place it back in park, or in neutral no issue. Did some more research and someone suggested seeing if holding the rpm up would help. If the truck drops below around 600 or so it starts to present a misfire very bad. From reviewing mode 6 data on the Blue Driver I purchased it is back and forth. Sometimes it will catch misfires on cylinders 1, 3, 5, or 8. Other times even when it is noticeable almost to a stall the scanner does not seem to pick up anything. It will sometimes show an Oxygen sensor issue, most of the time not though. I am looking for any help or advise that the community may be able to offer. Also I do not have a garage, and it is currently about 10F outside which limits my ability to instantly work on the truck. I had originally thought maybe the COP was making bad contact, so I removed all COP and used dielectric grease with no change. Another note is while the engine is cold it does not present, only when warm, and it never throws a code or MIL. I have also ran 2 cans of seafoam to see if there could be an improvement of fuel injectors. I have included 3 recent and different mode 6 reports if you can identify anything. As I am getting differing reports I am not even sure if this works correct or not, or if there is something that I should be specifically looking for. Any ideas?

Thank you,

 

[Adieu]

Did you put in a clean air filter, clean the MAF and the air plastics, and do the plugs after buying it?

What kinda coolant temps are you showing?

Did you by chance wash under the hood and/or spill or leak coolant? Maybe you got frozen shit with a bit of antifreeze content in your spark plug wells that defrosts once warmed up and starts causing electrical funtime? (Do NOT wash a triton or get water or especially coolant on it)

 

[Brenneman2385]

Hello Adieu,

Thanks for the fast response. The air filter was replaced when I purchased the truck, I did open to inspect and it is still clean. I have not cleaned the MAF, or done the plugs as I have heard about the plugs snapping. I am not sure when they were changed last, but until the VCT acted up it did not seem to have issues. Coolant runs about under ½, I can check the coolant temp on the way home tonight. I have not washed or spilled anything under the hood, and prior to removing the valve covers when I did the VCT’s I used compressed air multiple times to blow all the crap that was down around the plugs out so nothing would fall into the engine.

 

[Adieu]

Hello Adieu,

Thanks for the fast response. The air filter was replaced when I purchased the truck, I did open to inspect and it is still clean. I have not cleaned the MAF, or done the plugs as I have heard about the plugs snapping. I am not sure when they were changed last, but until the VCT acted up it did not seem to have issues. Coolant runs about under ½, I can check the coolant temp on the way home tonight. I have not washed or spilled anything under the hood, and prior to removing the valve covers when I did the VCT’s I used compressed air multiple times to blow all the crap that was down around the plugs out so nothing would fall into the engine.

Have you filled up new gas since this started?

I only realized how inconsistent fuel from big name companies can be several years back when I drove a diesel, different fillups would be the difference between a speed demon with your tires on fire and vibrate and crawl mode... yeah gas is more consistent on average, but still, a bad fillup will have you stuttering and shuddering instead of accelerating sometimes

 

[Brenneman2385]

Have you filled up new gas since this started?

I only realized how inconsistent fuel from big name companies can be several years back when I drove a diesel, different fillups would be the difference between a speed demon with your tires on fire and vibrate and crawl mode... yeah gas is more consistent on average, but still, a bad fillup will have you stuttering and shuddering instead of accelerating sometimes

Yes. I just filled up the other day and used 2 cans of seafoam, drove about 200 miles, same issue.

Thanks,

 

[Trainmaster]

You really should have a look at one of the plugs. At very best, they were changed 99,000 miles ago. With 199,000 miles on the truck, who knows what's left of the plugs.

You may be pounding your head against the wall when there's nothing left of the electrodes. I've seen that with these trucks. Changed mine at 70K and the back one was completely eroded. Always start with the easy things.

Look up "Occam's Razor".

 

[TobyU]

I would assume that by 199K the plugs have been changed but worth a look as others said.
I have had several coils that got hot and broke down. Get a cheap set on ebay to test. I just got a whole set of 8 for a 32v 5.4 for 36.00.

 

[jimz]

I had plug errors, rough running and lots of anxiety over high costs to repair. A new fuel filter did the trick. No more rough running. No more check engine lights. All is well.

 

[TobyU]

Did yo try to blow through that filter and then blow it backwards to see what comes out of it?

If a fuel filter is causing issues it will be so clogged you can not blow any air through it with you mouth. Only seen 2 in my life this plugged.

 

[Brenneman2385]

Hello All,

Thanks for the responses. Not sure why I did not get notifications. I installed a new air filter, no change. I am ordering plugs and coils, and plan on doing them soon as it is warming up. I am also going to look into changing the fuel filter. From the research I have done I think I have the new style heads where the plugs did not snap off as I have brown boots on my coils.

I will make sure to respond once I have figured it out.

 

[1955moose]

I believe it's any month after March you've got the newer plugs. Why not pull one of the easy plugs up front and check it out. They may be fine. I've been reading your earlier posts, and you said it could be the vct's, how did you come to that conclusion? Did it throw a code? Then you said that it would somtimes catch misfires? What does that mean? I'm going way out here, but misfires don't come and go, especially that many. Sounds like you've got a combo of things. First thing I'd do is clean both battery terminals, load test battery, check, clean, and tighten grounds. Do a fuel pressure test at fuel rail. Should be 28-45 running. Then I'd smoke motor. Sounds like you've got electrical issues, vacuum leaks, and possible secondary ignition problems. Do a codes check through your data port, and get back to us what pops up. Do this after the battery and cable clean.

Sent from my N9131 using Tapatalk

 

[Brenneman2385]

Hello again,

So today I changed the plugs, and installed some accel coils. The plugs were in bad shape. While doing this I found what looks to be a vacuum line, that is not connected, and I can not see where it would connect to. I started the truck and I am still having low idle about 560 rpm, when in gear at stop causing the truck to shake. Does anyone know what this hose connects to?

I have attached the mode 6 data from after the coil and plug change and I am still getting a misfire on cylinder 3?

Ideas?


Mode6-Feb_14_2019_6-17-55-PM.pdf

 

[gixer2000]

Hello again,

So today I changed the plugs, and installed some accel coils. The plugs were in bad shape. While doing this I found what looks to be a vacuum line, that is not connected, and I can not see where it would connect to. I started the truck and I am still having low idle about 560 rpm, when in gear at stop causing the truck to shake. Does anyone know what this hose connects to?View attachment 28769 View attachment 28768 View attachment 28767

That vacuum line is the vent for the front passanger hub. There is also a vent on the drivers side.

Its supposed to be open

 

[Brenneman2385]

I believe it's any month after March you've got the newer plugs. Why not pull one of the easy plugs up front and check it out. They may be fine. I've been reading your earlier posts, and you said it could be the vct's, how did you come to that conclusion? Did it throw a code? Then you said that it would somtimes catch misfires? What does that mean? I'm going way out here, but misfires don't come and go, especially that many. Sounds like you've got a combo of things. First thing I'd do is clean both battery terminals, load test battery, check, clean, and tighten grounds. Do a fuel pressure test at fuel rail. Should be 28-45 running. Then I'd smoke motor. Sounds like you've got electrical issues, vacuum leaks, and possible secondary ignition problems. Do a codes check through your data port, and get back to us what pops up. Do this after the battery and cable clean.

Sent from my N9131 using Tapatalk

Hello 1955 Moose,

So I purchased this vehicle about 8 months ago with 196,000. Going to work one morning I came to a stop at the stop sign and the truck ran extremely rough for about 30 seconds, trying to give it gas, and it died. Started still running the same, died. Was able to limp it into a parking lot, and ran my scanner on it and it gave multiple codes. I just pulled the report.

P0018 Crankshaft Position - Camshaft Position Correlation Bank 2
P0022 "A" Camshaft Postion - Timing Over Retarded Bank 2
P0300 Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire
P0305 Cylinder 5 Misfire
P0308 Cylinder 8 Misfire
P0316 Engine Misfire Detected on Startup

Kept the truck parked and that afternoon 9 hours later cleared the codes. Started the truck and it was un-drivable again. The following codes were activated

P0018 Camshaft Position Correlation Bank 2
P0022 "A" Camshaft Postion - Timing Over Retarded Bank 2
P0113 Intake Air Temperature Sensor 1 Circuit High
P0300 Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire
P0305 Cylinder 5 Misfire
P0307 Cylinder 7 Misfire
P0308 Cylinder 8 Misfire

I had a coworker follow me home as I live close.

That evening scanned again and had:
P0010 "A" Camshaft Position Actuator Control Circuit/Open Bank 1
P0020 "A" Camshaft Position Actuator Control Circuit/Open Bank 2

I did research on this and it showed that the VCT solenoids going out will both give these codes, and all of the associated problems. From there I ordered 2 motorcraft VCT solenoids and this then brought me to the issues of the misfire.

Thanks to everyone who is helping!

 

[Brenneman2385]

That vacuum line is the vent for the front passanger hub. There is also a vent on the drivers side.

Its supposed to be open

Gixer2000,


Thanks for the response, while I am glad to know it is supposed to be like that, I was hoping that was causing my issue. LOL

 

[gixer2000]

Hello 1955 Moose,

So I purchased this vehicle about 8 months ago with 196,000. Going to work one morning I came to a stop at the stop sign and the truck ran extremely rough for about 30 seconds, trying to give it gas, and it died. Started still running the same, died. Was able to limp it into a parking lot, and ran my scanner on it and it gave multiple codes. I just pulled the report.

P0018 Crankshaft Position - Camshaft Position Correlation Bank 2
P0022 "A" Camshaft Postion - Timing Over Retarded Bank 2
P0300 Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire
P0305 Cylinder 5 Misfire
P0308 Cylinder 8 Misfire
P0316 Engine Misfire Detected on Startup

Kept the truck parked and that afternoon 9 hours later cleared the codes. Started the truck and it was un-drivable again. The following codes were activated

P0018 Camshaft Position Correlation Bank 2
P0022 "A" Camshaft Postion - Timing Over Retarded Bank 2
P0113 Intake Air Temperature Sensor 1 Circuit High
P0300 Random/Multiple Cylinder Misfire
P0305 Cylinder 5 Misfire
P0307 Cylinder 7 Misfire
P0308 Cylinder 8 Misfire

I had a coworker follow me home as I live close.

That evening scanned again and had:
P0010 "A" Camshaft Position Actuator Control Circuit/Open Bank 1
P0020 "A" Camshaft Position Actuator Control Circuit/Open Bank 2

I did research on this and it showed that the VCT solenoids going out will both give these codes, and all of the associated problems. From there I ordered 2 motorcraft VCT solenoids and this then brought me to the issues of the misfire.

Thanks to everyone who is helping!

Do you still have any of these codes or any at all?

Do you have a scanner that is capable of doing mode 6 so you can see real time misfires?

 

[Brenneman2385]

Do you still have any of these codes or any at all?

Do you have a scanner that is capable of doing mode 6 so you can see real time misfires?

Gixer2000,

After changing the VCT's 2 months ago I cleared the codes, and have not had any return. I have a bluetooth scanner "Bluedriver", that has mode 6, but it does not display the cylinders in the live data stream. I am still showing a misfire on cylinder 3 according to the data I ran on my drive a little bit ago. I have attached the Mode 6 report that it shows me.

Thank you,

 

[gixer2000]

Gixer2000,

After changing the VCT's 2 months ago I cleared the codes, and have not had any return. I have a bluetooth scanner "Bluedriver", that has mode 6, but it does not display the cylinders in the live data stream. I am still showing a misfire on cylinder 3 according to the data I ran on my drive a little bit ago. I have attached the Mode 6 report that it shows me.

Thank you,

So cylinder 3 is what your after. Does it mis at low load, idle or only heavy load?

 

[Brenneman2385]

So cylinder 3 is what your after. Does it mis at low load, idle or only heavy load?

It is only noticeable at a stop with vehicle in gear at operating temperature. RPM will drop to as low as 555 RPM. I cannot notice it under acceleration, or when the vehicle is cold.

 

[Trainmaster]

Since you are only getting a misfire code, how about replacing the offending Chinese coil with a real one, like one of the Motorcraft ones you took off? Maybe it's just a bad coil. Did you change the boots too when you did the plugs? I'm hoping your problem has nothing to do with the VCTs.