Platinum - 400HP Rating?

[prenticect]

Does anyone here know how they added 25HP to the Platinum series? I see it needs PRemium Fuel, but physical differences are in the truck? The CPU only? So far I cannot figure out how they got the increase. Since I will be owning one here in about 6 hours... I want to know things about parts/fixes/maintenance, etc that is different from the default motor. Thanks.

 

[AJ82]

My understanding is the increase is just software tuning differences between the models except for the Timberline and Stealth Performance which have different engine parts (like the turbos and other items I believe). I'm sure others can provide more info.

As for fuel, premium is recommended but not required to operate the engine. You will get more performance with premium vs regular.

 

[GlennSullivan]

These are twin turbo engines with electronically controlled wastegates. Wastegates are the devices in turbo engines that control the boost. A change in the software program increases boost, which increases horsepower. In the Ford F150 Raptor a similar version of this engine makes 450HP and in the Ford GT supercar, it makes 600HP.

As far as fuel, higher boost levels require higher octane fuel. While some of these 3.5L TT engines can run on regular (87 octane) fuel, they run better on premium. The higher HP versions of the engine, requires Premium Fuel.

 

[JExpedition07]

These are twin turbo engines with electronically controlled wastegates. Wastegates are the devices in turbo engines that control the boost. A change in the software program increases boost, which increases horsepower. In the Ford F150 Raptor a similar version of this engine makes 450HP and in the Ford GT supercar, it makes 600HP.

As far as fuel, higher boost levels require higher octane fuel. While some of these 3.5L TT engines can run on regular (87 octane) fuel, they run better on premium. The higher HP versions of the engine, requires Premium Fuel.

There are trade offs. HO gives up significant low end torque, the Raptor 3.5 makes significantly less low end torque than its predecessor 6.2 V8. To achieve higher top end power the turbo needs to spool later in the rev band.

 

[AJ82]

Directly from the 2022 manual:

Fuel Quality - Selecting the Correct Fuel​

SELECTING THE CORRECT FUEL​

Your vehicle operates on regular unleaded gasoline with a minimum pump (R+M)/2 octane rating of 87.
Some fuel stations, particularly those in high altitude areas, offer fuels posted as regular unleaded gasoline with an octane rating below 87. The use of these fuels could result in engine damage that will not be covered by the vehicle Warranty.

For best overall vehicle and engine performance, premium fuel with an octane rating of 91 or higher is recommended. The performance gained by using premium fuel is most noticeable in hot weather as well as other conditions, for example when towing a trailer. See Towing a Trailer.

Do not be concerned if the engine sometimes knocks lightly. However, if the engine knocks heavily while using fuel with the recommended octane rating, contact an authorized dealer to prevent any engine damage.

We recommend Top Tier detergent gasolines, where available to help minimize engine deposits and maintain optimal vehicle and engine performance.
For additional information, visit www.toptiergas.com.

Note: Use of any fuel for which the vehicle was not designed can impair the emission control system, cause loss of vehicle performance, and cause damage to the engine which may not be covered by the vehicle Warranty.

Do not use:

• Diesel fuel.
• Fuels containing kerosene or paraffin.
• Fuel containing more than 15% ethanol or E85 fuel.
• Fuels containing methanol.
• Fuels containing metallic-based additives, including manganese-based compounds.
• Fuels containing the octane booster additive, methylcyclopentadienyl manganese tricarbonyl (MMT).
• Leaded fuel, using leaded fuel is prohibited by law.

The use of fuels with metallic compounds such as methylcyclopentadienyl manganese tricarbonyl, which is a manganese-based fuel additive, will impair engine performance and affect the emission control system.

 

[rd618]

There are trade offs. HO gives up significant low end torque, the Raptor 3.5 makes significantly less low end torque than its predecessor 6.2 V8. To achieve higher top end power the turbo needs to spool later in the rev band.

There is no replacement for displacement.

Until you weigh the pros/cons relative to 85% of the buyer's utility requirements, it becomes apparent that the HO engines are marketing's fantastic ability to convince people they don't want to be "that person" with less power.

 

[GlennSullivan]

Directly from the 2022 manual:

Fuel Quality - Selecting the Correct Fuel​

SELECTING THE CORRECT FUEL​

Your vehicle operates on regular unleaded gasoline with a minimum pump (R+M)/2 octane rating of 87.
Some fuel stations, particularly those in high altitude areas, offer fuels posted as regular unleaded gasoline with an octane rating below 87. The use of these fuels could result in engine damage that will not be covered by the vehicle Warranty.

For best overall vehicle and engine performance, premium fuel with an octane rating of 91 or higher is recommended. The performance gained by using premium fuel is most noticeable in hot weather as well as other conditions, for example when towing a trailer. See Towing a Trailer.

Do not be concerned if the engine sometimes knocks lightly. However, if the engine knocks heavily while using fuel with the recommended octane rating, contact an authorized dealer to prevent any engine damage.

We recommend Top Tier detergent gasolines, where available to help minimize engine deposits and maintain optimal vehicle and engine performance.
For additional information, visit www.toptiergas.com.

Note: Use of any fuel for which the vehicle was not designed can impair the emission control system, cause loss of vehicle performance, and cause damage to the engine which may not be covered by the vehicle Warranty.

Do not use:

• Diesel fuel.
• Fuels containing kerosene or paraffin.
• Fuel containing more than 15% ethanol or E85 fuel.
• Fuels containing methanol.
• Fuels containing metallic-based additives, including manganese-based compounds.
• Fuels containing the octane booster additive, methylcyclopentadienyl manganese tricarbonyl (MMT).
• Leaded fuel, using leaded fuel is prohibited by law.

The use of fuels with metallic compounds such as methylcyclopentadienyl manganese tricarbonyl, which is a manganese-based fuel additive, will impair engine performance and affect the emission control system.

The 400HP and 440HP version of this engine certainly does not put out the full rated HP when running on 87 fuel, that is alluded to in this statement from above.

For best overall vehicle and engine performance, premium fuel with an octane rating of 91 or higher is recommended. The performance gained by using premium fuel is most noticeable in hot weather as well as other conditions, for example when towing a trailer.

 

[2018ExpyPlatinum]

As a reminder....even though the MANUAL says 91, the brochure (remember them?) for my 2018 states, 400 HP on 93 octane. Many stations, especially out here, DO NOT have 93. I do not run premium any more. It runs fine on regular, but, I'll admit, it does run a bit better on premium. If I do "top it off" above half a tank, I sometimes fill it with premium.

 

[AJ82]

The 400HP and 440HP version of this engine certainly does not put out the full rated HP when running on 87 fuel, that is alluded to in this statement from above.

Correct. And no where did I state that it did.

 

[sixstring]

I just run the cheap gas. Everything has been fine. If I want some extra performance, I put it in Sport Mode.

 

[GixxerJasen]

I just run the cheap gas. Everything has been fine. If I want some extra performance, I put it in Sport Mode.

Me: I wish I'd opted for the higher HP modes. I should get a tuner. And an intercooler, that'd be badass!
Also me: Dials in Eco mode as soon as I start the vehicle.

 

[mr_dave]

There is no replacement for displacement.

Until you weigh the pros/cons relative to 85% of the buyer's utility requirements, it becomes apparent that the HO engines are marketing's fantastic ability to convince people they don't want to be "that person" with less power.

The biggest driver for smaller engine displacement is our good 'ol government's EPA mileage and emissions requirements. But yes, marketing definitely takes full advantage of turbo tuning and fuel requirement games to "beat" competitors, even if it sacrifices everyday usability.

EPA MPG Rules for 2027–32 Cars, Trucks, SUVs Getting (Way) Tougher

These are expected to be the toughest emissions standards yet, a move that should push the industry even more in the direction of EVs.

www.caranddriver.com

 

[sixstring]

I would much rather have a 6 cylinder ecoboost in an expy than a 5.4 triton.

The ecoboost horsepower and torque advantages are significant.

 

[rd618]

The biggest driver for smaller engine displacement is our good 'ol government's EPA mileage and emissions requirements. But yes, marketing definitely takes full advantage of turbo tuning and fuel requirement games to "beat" competitors, even if it sacrifices everyday usability.

EPA MPG Rules for 2027–32 Cars, Trucks, SUVs Getting (Way) Tougher

These are expected to be the toughest emissions standards yet, a move that should push the industry even more in the direction of EVs.

www.caranddriver.com

With gas up here at 4.70-4.80 for premium, you start feeling the 2-4 mpg difference.

 

[jjscsix]

The 400HP and 440HP version of this engine certainly does not put out the full rated HP when running on 87 fuel, that is alluded to in this statement from above.

I dint know how much the engine puts out with one or the other, but I do not see that as alluding that it puts out less power with regular fuel. Ford recommends regular and they rate a platinum at 400 Hp. To me that says it puts out rated power with recommended fuel.

What they say is that the engine runs better in hot weather and heavy loads with premium. Hot weather in particular causes power to go down all else being equal. Simple physics, less oxygen.

I think It’s more likely that on premium it does not lose power under certain circumstances because the engine will not pull boost to keep it from detonating under more severe conditions.

My main reason for believing the 400 is on regular fuel is simply that is the recommended fuel. Some companies, like Geneses and Mazda tell you that premium is the recommended fuel but you can safely on lower octane but it will reduce power, and some even tell you what the lower power will be.

 

[rd618]

I dint know how much the engine puts out with one or the other, but I do not see that as alluding that it puts out less power with regular fuel. Ford recommends regular and they rate a platinum at 400 Hp. To me that says it puts out rated power with recommended fuel.

What they say is that the engine runs better in hot weather and heavy loads with premium. Hot weather in particular causes power to go down all else being equal. Simple physics, less oxygen.

I think It’s more likely that on premium it does not lose power under certain circumstances because the engine will not pull boost to keep it from detonating under more severe conditions.

My main reason for believing the 400 is on regular fuel is simply that is the recommended fuel. Some companies, like Geneses and Mazda tell you that premium is the recommended fuel but you can safely on lower octane but it will reduce power, and some even tell you what the lower power will be.

The 375hp, or 400hp, or 440hp, depending on your trim and engine is with 91+ octane fuel (the actual SAE I believe nets out around 92 octane)
All tests and HP/TQ ratings are with the higher octane.
You can safely run the 3.5TT down to 87 octane with no issues, the engine will dial back the timing automatically. HP, Torque, and fuel economy are reduced by roughly 10%.
Keep in mind, timing reductions are not consistent for the entire power band, it is most noticeable in higher RPM scenarios or when engine load is high.

 

[GixxerJasen]

Ford recommends regular and they rate a platinum at 400 Hp. To me that says it puts out rated power with recommended fuel.

What they say is that the engine runs better in hot weather and heavy loads with premium.

What they say, exactly from the current owners manual, is below. They say it'll operate at regular, but recommend premium.

Your vehicle operates on regular unleaded gasoline with a minimum pump (R+M)/2 octane rating of 87.

For best overall vehicle and engine performance, premium fuel with an octane rating of 91 or higher is recommended. The performance gained by using premium fuel is most noticeable in hot weather as well as other conditions, for example when towing a trailer. See Towing a Trailer.

We recommend Top Tier detergent gasolines, where available to help minimize engine deposits and maintain optimal vehicle and engine performance.

https://www.fordservicecontent.com/Ford_Content/vdirsnet/OwnerManual/Home/Content?variantid=9222&languageCode=en&countryCode=USA&Uid=G2231856&ProcUid=G2134123&userMarket=usa&div=f&vFilteringEnabled=False&buildtype=web

 

[2018ExpyPlatinum]

Regarding that article @mr_dave posted, I just read another talking about these new standards. The big three say there's almost no way they can meet those future standards. Of course, they might be crying wolf, but we all know who will pay for it.

 

[mr_dave]

Regarding that article @mr_dave posted, I just read another talking about these new standards. The big three say there's almost no way they can meet those future standards. Of course, they might be crying wolf, but we all know who will pay for it.

Not to get too far off topic, but my view on these unattainable standards is that they're quite a bit more nefarious than simply being "green." Think about how EVs actually work. They all need a significant amount of electricity (which can be monitored and controlled remotely at scale) and they are all permanently connected to LTE/5G/wifi (which allows the vehicles themselves to be monitored and controlled remotely at scale).

Think about all of the new taxes they could come up with having that information and control! Or maybe they want to implement some sort of Singapore-style time/day windows that limit when you can use your own car. Or maybe you said something on Facebook they didn't like. Now think about how a future lockdown situation might work if everyone was forced to drive EVs...

 

[jjscsix]

The 375hp, or 400hp, or 440hp, depending on your trim and engine is with 91+ octane fuel (the actual SAE I believe nets out around 92 octane)
All tests and HP/TQ ratings are with the higher octane.
You can safely run the 3.5TT down to 87 octane with no issues, the engine will dial back the timing automatically. HP, Torque, and fuel economy are reduced by roughly 10%.
Keep in mind, timing reductions are not consistent for the entire power band, it is most noticeable in higher RPM scenarios or when engine load is high.

I understand what mine is rated at. That’s not what I was saying. Sorry for confusion. How do you know it’s rated at higher octane. Normal practice is to rate at recommended fuel. That is 87 octane on the expedition.