Really Need Help

[disvnvet]

I am dealing with some traumatic issues with my son and need to reserve funds to cover expenses so I cannot take to shop.

I am having problem with 1999 Expedition with 5.4.

I am having a heat problem but my primary problem at this point is related to starting.

I turn the key on and I can hear the fuel pump whinning however, when I turn the key to start, it sometimes starts but most of the time it does not.

I really dont know where to begin and with present cirsumstances with my son, I have a difficult time focusing.

I have tried reading, analyzing, and guessing but can't seem to comprehend. I am no dummy, I am more concerned about my son and his deteriorating condition.

I would like some help to diagnose the problem, and of course, solve.

I would like someone to give me instructions, step-by-step, if possible.

If you would prefer, you can contact me directly. This forum is acceptable also.

As you provide me information, bear with me. I am old, disabled and have a lot on my plate right now.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Thermo]

disvnvet, I want you to try something. Attempt to start the truck, but don't roll the key straight to the start position. What I want you to do is to roll the key to the RUN position, pause there for say 3 seconds or so (may be able to hear the fuel pump stop), then turn the key to the START position to start the engine. If the motor starts right up, then that will pretty much confirm a failing fuel pump. If you are still having issues, then I would say to clean the idle air control (IAC) valve to see how things are doing. Granted, what you will normally see when the IAC Valve is dirty, it will cause the idle to bounce up and down about 200 RPM as the trick is sitting there idling with the truck in PARK.

Where are you? If you are in the Maryland area (I'm south of DC by about an hour), I would be willing to help out a brother in arms.

If these two things don't fix your problem, let me know and we will go from there.

 

[toms89]

I would suggest trying to turn the ignition on a couple of times before you crank. If its a fuel bleed down problem it should start easier.

On the opposite end if that does not work you could try w.o.t. while starting. This puts the pcm into clear flood mode and will not inject fuel.

3rd if you give it just a little throttle and it starts it may be the IAC valve.

Trying these different methods may point you/us in the right direction.

 

[disvnvet]

Additional Question

Turned the key to run and heard the fuel pump whinning.

Vehicle did not start.

1. Turned the key to run and heard fuel pump whinning.
2. Turned off and turned on. Did not hear the pump running.

Is this normal??

Will do the IAC next, time permitting and based on your response.

Unfortunately, I am in Sacramento, CA. My brother lives in Sykesville, MD but that is no help.

Thanks

 

[toms89]

Turned the key to run and heard the fuel pump whinning.

Vehicle did not start.

1. Turned the key to run and heard fuel pump whinning.
2. Turned off and turned on. Did not hear the pump running.

Is this normal??

Will do the IAC next, time permitting and based on your response.

Unfortunately, I am in Sacramento, CA. My brother lives in Sykesville, MD but that is no help.

Thanks

The fuel pump should run for about 3 seconds everytime you cycle the ignition in a gen 1 expy. The sound volume you hear may go down as fuel pressure has increased but the pump should still should run. So you cycled it and it still did not start?

Did you try holding it w.o.t. to start?

 

[disvnvet]

The fuel pump should run for about 3 seconds everytime you cycle the ignition in a gen 1 expy. The sound volume you hear may go down as fuel pressure has increased but the pump should still should run. So you cycled it and it still did not start?

Did you try holding it w.o.t. to start?

Went back and tried to start in W.O.T. and again with a little throttle. No difference, no start.

I went back to off and run the fuel pump whinned. I recycled the key to off and run and no whinning. I did this three more times. On the fourth try, the fuel pump whinned. On all the non-whinning tries, all I heard was a thud. Fuel Pump?? or possibly filter??

 

[toms89]

Went back and tried to start in W.O.T. and again with a little throttle. No difference, no start.

I went back to off and run the fuel pump whinned. I recycled the key to off and run and no whinning. I did this three more times. On the fourth try, the fuel pump whinned. On all the non-whinning tries, all I heard was a thud. Fuel Pump?? or possibly filter??

Faulty fuel pump or relay would be my guess but it could be elsewhere in the wiring (less likely). It may be running ok when little or no pressure is in the system but as the fuel pressure increases it cuts out. Checking fuel pressure would verify the fuel system as the problem.

 

[vietnamvet]

Faulty fuel pump or relay would be my guess but it could be elsewhere in the wiring (less likely). It may be running ok when little or no pressure is in the system but as the fuel pressure increases it cuts out. Checking fuel pressure would verify the fuel system as the problem.

Once vehicle starts, it runs fine. It only appears to be related to starting. If you still think it is the fuel pump, I will pursue repair.

Regarding fuel pressure, I have a guage. What steps should I take to get the fuel pressure?

Thanks

 

[toms89]

Once vehicle starts, it runs fine. It only appears to be related to starting. If you still think it is the fuel pump, I will pursue repair.

Regarding fuel pressure, I have a guage. What steps should I take to get the fuel pressure?

Thanks

There should be a schrader valve on the passenger side of the fuel rail. Make sure you have a gauge designed for fuel pressure Your looking for about 40 psi when ignition is initially turned on before you crank it. While running it should be near 30 at idle.

It is odd that it runs fine otherwise but checking the fuel pressure will verify one way or the other. Fuel pump should cycle every time you turn ignition off and then back to run position......

Fuel filter is a tune up item so that would not hurt to change either way and worth a shot.

 

[disvnvet]

Additonal Information

Checked the fuel pressure with key on. It starts at 30psi and very slowly starts decreasing.

I think that is confirmation that it is the pump. What do you think??

Also, I have found Fuel Pumps starting at $127.00 and up. The $127 is an AirTech being sold by PartsGeek and is for the 5.4 RWD. I am a little hesitant anyway since some of the sites list narrow connector and wide connector.

Not sure about them so maybe you have an opinion.

I can get a rebuild kit locally for $91 from autozone but again, the quality is in question.

In my opinion, it is probably better to get the entire pump but after fixing helicopters for 20 years, I am sure I can rebuild.

What do you recommend??

Another question: Although I have not seen one is there an access plate from the top rather than dropping the tank.?

 

[toms89]

Checked the fuel pressure with key on. It starts at 30psi and very slowly starts decreasing.

I think that is confirmation that it is the pump. What do you think??

Also, I have found Fuel Pumps starting at $127.00 and up. The $127 is an AirTech being sold by PartsGeek and is for the 5.4 RWD. I am a little hesitant anyway since some of the sites list narrow connector and wide connector.

Not sure about them so maybe you have an opinion.

I can get a rebuild kit locally for $91 from autozone but again, the quality is in question.

In my opinion, it is probably better to get the entire pump but after fixing helicopters for 20 years, I am sure I can rebuild.

What do you recommend??

Another question: Although I have not seen one is there an access plate from the top rather than dropping the tank.?

The check valve in the pump, a leaky injector, or faulty fuel pressure regulator can all cause the fuel pressure to drop. Thats why we recommended to cycle the pump and try and start. Can you have someone watch the gauge as the key is cycled. It should jump up to 40psi or so initially but if its bleeding down it may take a few cycles. If it never hits 40psi it is likely a pump issue or bad fuel leak. Would have to be injector, regulator or hose inside tank or you would see and smell fuel. This sounds weird but if you remove the vacuum line from the fuel pressure regulator and attach a length of hose and pull slight vacuum with your mouth and taste fuel the diaphragm in the regulator is leaking and needs replaced. Don't inhale...lol.

There is no access plate in the body so tank needs to be dropped for access. Great idea though... you should make this recommendation to ford. I dropped my tank to put in a high volume pump and it was not too difficult. Disconnecting the misc hoses was the biggest difficulty. Make sure the fuel is run near empty or siphon it out. Also helped friend replace one in his truck at it was much easier to remove the bed for access.

Not sure what you were looking at but its easy to replace just the pump itself once you drop the tank. No need to replace the pump housing and bracket.

 

[disvnvet]

Thanks again.

I will try all that you suggested and see what happens. I will probably change the pump though since it doesnt always run when the key is on.

I have a little crisis with my son this morning so I may not be back on for a couple of days. He is more important than this vehicle.

Will let you know.

 

[vietnamvet]

Update

Ok, finally got back to the car for a few minutes:

1, Car has been sitting for two days.
2. I turned the key to run, it whinned, and shut off.
3. I turned the key to run a couple of times and then it whinned. Tried to start and started right away.
4. I turned the car off.
5. I repeated 2. and 3 and car would not start.
6. I repeated 5 and car would not start.

I have a little fuel odor that I didn't notice before. Smells like car is running rich.

Seems to be only after start.

Went back after 20 Minutes and did 2 and 3. Again, it started right up.

Before I go any further, time permitting, what do you think??

 

[toms89]

Ok, finally got back to the car for a few minutes:

1, Car has been sitting for two days.
2. I turned the key to run, it whinned, and shut off.
3. I turned the key to run a couple of times and then it whinned. Tried to start and started right away.
4. I turned the car off.
5. I repeated 2. and 3 and car would not start.
6. I repeated 5 and car would not start.

I have a little fuel odor that I didn't notice before. Smells like car is running rich.

Seems to be only after start.

Went back after 20 Minutes and did 2 and 3. Again, it started right up.

Before I go any further, time permitting, what do you think??

Sounds to me like you may be flooding the motor when its warm?!

You may have a leaky injector or fuel pressure regulator. This will leak fuel into the intake manifold or vacuum line.

This can bleed down fuel pressure over period of time.
After it sits awhile it evaporates but you also loose fuel pressure.
Cycling the pump will build it back up and allow you to cold start.

Immediately after you shut down it is rarely necessary to cycle the pump as you will have some pressure left in the lines. I would not use this method for warm start.

If you do cycle the pump after you shut down it could end up flooding motor if leak is bad enough. Then you may need to attempt w.o.t. start to clear flood.

If it starts fine cycling the pump while cold I would suspect it would start fine while its hot with out cycling it first.

 

[vietnamvet]

If it starts fine cycling the pump while cold I would suspect it would start fine while its hot with out cycling it first.

This is the problem. I shut it down, SOMETIMES, it will start but normally, it will not restart. If I recycle the pump as explained or If I wait awhile and recycle, then it starts again. No matter what, it has to be recycled.

Without recycling, it will not start at all.

 

[toms89]

This is the problem. I shut it down, SOMETIMES, it will start but normally, it will not restart. If I recycle the pump as explained or If I wait awhile and recycle, then it starts again. No matter what, it has to be recycled.

Without recycling, it will not start at all.

Just to clarify...

You cold start recycling the pump after it sits a period of time.
Shut down and immediately try to to restart with out cycling the pump and it will not.

 

[vietnamvet]

You are correct! Will not start without recycling hot or cold.

 

[disvnvet]

With the little time I had, it was determined that the fuel pump is definitely bad. In a week or so I will be able to dedicate all the time needed to fix the vehicle.

My son passed away Monday night and I need a few days to recover.

Thanks for all the help.

 

[BakerEdition]

OK, I need to jump in here before you go ripping a tank down....have you you ever changed the fuel filter or looked at it??? its down on the frame....I had this problem once and found out the filter had never been changed...what was happening when the vehicle sat for a few days it would start right up and run and then quit....the dirt in the fuel filter would settle and then would allow enough gas to get through to start and after the rush of fuel hit the filter it would stir up the dirt and shut the fuel off or decrease pressure...if the pump is weak it may shut down when the fuel backs up...dont know about that, but do know what a 15.00 fuel filter will do when its dirty....my 2 cents...ok maybe a nickle...lol...

My dad was a WW-2 combat medic in the front lines and did a full tour...thank you for your service to this country....I have a step son who was just deployed to Kandahar for a year...talked to him today and he told us there were rockets being shot...its gonna be a long year.

 

[wakeboarderNH]

With the little time I had, it was determined that the fuel pump is definitely bad. In a week or so I will be able to dedicate all the time needed to fix the vehicle.

My son passed away Monday night and I need a few days to recover.

Thanks for all the help.

Sorry to hear about your loss. My condolences go to your family.
- Nick Hooton