Scammed or Clueless? 2009 Expedition

[1955moose]

It's not uncommon to get over 300k plus on a 4.6/5.4 motor. But maintenance is critical. We had real great luck with our taxi fleet of 2005-10 crown Victoria's. the only 2 issues were both cooling related. No matter the brand, the radiators failed, along with fan switches, and the occasional thermostat. But even with occasional overheating, we still got high mileage out of the trouble years vehicles . They must have had different components than the larger 5.4 engine. Does the larger 5.4 of those years differ greatly from the smaller 4.6?


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[Bedrck47]

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Regarding 16,000 miles since oil change, I guess the mechanic has a setting that tells the change mileage. He also videoed draining the old oil, which was pretty bad. Both of these are a part of my evidence

Seems like your guessing at this. You need to read the owners manual to understand how the oil life is measured and what the read-out it gives in the message center means. It does not keep a running total from one oil change to another And also it is a feature that can be reset by the owner/someone else. And it could be possible that an oil change was done and the message center wasn't reset. However I could be wrong about this but I highly doubt that.

As far as having a video of the old oil that can be questioned What's to say that the oil was changed and some really bad oil was put into the oil pan and then drained and that is what was video taped.

 

[rwmorrisonjr]

The vehicle reviews in Consumer Reports are probably questionable at best, and have been for years. They often site a model year with a specific problem, such as engine or electrical, but the prior year and the year after are fine, even though the manufacturer didn't change anything. The best part is the "used vehicles to avoid" section; a lot of those I actually agree with. Regardless, I always opt for a warranty with a used vehicles (through the credit union, not the dealer). The warranty on my Mercedes paid for itself 13x over! What a POS that was!!

Thanks. I have a CR subscription as well, and the car reviews (and reviews in general) have gone down in quality over the past 10-15 years, so I'm not impressed with them any more. That said, I've seen where the 2012 is listed as "fair" due to the electrical system. I think 2012 is when they switched to the CANBUS system, so they might have had some additional electrical or computer issues due to the change. My 2012 is rock solid with 104k on the clock and getting ready for the 105k service and new shoes! Here's to getting 200k!

 

[rcanfiel]

"It does not keep a running total from one oil change to another And also it is a feature that can be reset by the owner/someone else. And it could be possible that an oil change was done and the message center wasn't reset. However I could be wrong about this but I highly doubt that."

Yes, you are wrong. The mechanic knew exactly when the oil was changed.

"As far as having a video of the old oil that can be questioned What's to say that the oil was changed and some really bad oil was put into the oil pan and then drained and that is what was video taped."

The video was filmed by the shop in their shop while they drained it. It goes with the other. They will be providing a write-up of what they found. This is 10 shop chain, not someone off Craigslist




"

 

[Bedrck47]

The following was copied from the 2009 Ford Service manual.

Again I will ask how your mechanic was able to determine that the oil was last changed at 114000 miles and had 16000 miles on it since last changed. The below information does not give mileage totals between oil changes.




SECTION 413-01: Instrumentation, Message Center, and Warning Chimes 2009 Expedition/Navigator Workshop Manual
GENERAL PROCEDURES Procedure revision date: 09/12/2008

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Message Center Configuration

Oil Life Reset — Message Center Cluster

NOTE: The oil life calculation is set at a maximum of approximately 12,070 km (7,500 miles) or 180 days.

NOTE: The XX's in the message center displays below represent a numeric value. For example, the message center may display OIL LIFE = 80%.

Press and release the SETUP button until the message center displays OIL LIFE = ***% HOLD RESET = NEW.
Press and hold the RESET button for 2 seconds and release when the message center displays OIL LIFE SET TO 100%.
Press and release the SETUP button to exit the procedure.

Oil Life Reset — Base Instrument Cluster (IC)

NOTE: All message center functions are carried out using the single stem reset button in the Instrument Cluster (IC).

NOTE: The oil life calculation is set at a maximum of approximately 12,070 km (7,500 miles) or 180 days.

NOTE: The XX's in the message center displays below represent a numeric value. For example, the message center may display OIL LIFE = 80%.

Press and release the reset button to scroll through the information displays until the message center displays HOLD RESET FOR SETUP MENU.
Press and hold the reset button for approximately 2 seconds until the message center displays HOLD RESET FOR SYSTEM CHECK.
Press and release the reset button until the message center displays OIL LIFE = ***% HOLD RESET = NEW.
Press and hold the RESET button for 2 seconds and release when the message center displays OIL LIFE SET TO 100%.
Press and release the reset button to exit the procedure.

Oil Life Start Value — Message Center Cluster

NOTE: The oil life start value is used to increase or decrease the starting point of the oil life. The value can be changed back to the maximum of approximately 12,070 km (7,500 miles) if the value was previously changed or lowered by 10% increments down to 10%.

NOTE: The XX's in the message center displays below represent a numeric value. For example, the message center may display OIL LIFE = 80%.

Press and release the SETUP button until the message center displays OIL LIFE = ***% HOLD RESET = NEW.
Press and hold the RESET button for 2 seconds and release when the message center displays OIL LIFE SET TO 100%.
NOTE: The oil life start value can be lowered from 100% to 10% in 10% increments then the value starts again at 100%.

Press the RESET button once for each 10% reduction below the default 100% until the message center displays OIL LIFE SET TO XX%.
Press and release the SETUP button to exit the procedure.

Oil Life Start Value — Base Instrument Cluster (IC)

NOTE: All message center functions are carried out using the single stem reset button in the Instrument Cluster (IC).

NOTE: The oil life start value is used to increase or decrease the starting point of the oil life. The value can be changed back to the maximum of approximately 12,070 km (7,500 miles) if the value was previously changed or lowered by 10% increments down to 10%.

Press and release the reset button to scroll through the information displays until the message center displays HOLD RESET FOR SETUP MENU.
Press and hold the reset button for approximately 2 seconds until the message center displays HOLD RESET FOR SYSTEM CHECK.
Press and release the reset button until the message center displays OIL LIFE = ***% HOLD RESET = NEW.
Press and hold the RESET button for 2 seconds and release when the message center displays OIL LIFE SET TO 100%.
Press the RESET button to lower 10% from the default 100% until the message center displays OIL LIFE SET TO XX%.
NOTE: The oil life start value can be lowered from 100% to 10% in 10% increments then the value starts again at 100%.

Repeat steps 2-5 for each desired 10% reduction.
Press and release the reset button to exit the procedure.

 

[ManUpOrShutUp]

The computer has the ability to store mileage since the last oil change, but of course it can only tell you when that parameter was last reset (not when the oil was actually changed). It's entirely possible that someone reset it without changing the oil and equally possible that someone changed the oil and didn't reset it. I can see this parameter in my UltraGauge, but have no means of resetting it so according to the computer my oil was last changed 28K miles ago even though it was actually changed 1K miles ago.

 

[DesertFordRat]

Such a lovely thread. I ended up with a new engine 6 months after I purchased my vehicle. I did a bunch of research and knew about the phasers and so I knew what to point out when taking it to the dealer. I was expecting for them to just fix the phasers and vtc silenoids, but after they got into the engine they discovered some damage to the cam shafts. Repair vs remanned engine the warranty company opted for the whole engine. I take it they wanted it done right and to be done with it. The new engine has more power and sounds great. I feel your pain, but the dealer should be doing all the work here.

 

[rcanfiel]

Such a lovely thread. I ended up with a new engine 6 months after I purchased my vehicle. I did a bunch of research and knew about the phasers and so I knew what to point out when taking it to the dealer. I was expecting for them to just fix the phasers and vtc silenoids, but after they got into the engine they discovered some damage to the cam shafts. Repair vs remanned engine the warranty company opted for the whole engine. I take it they wanted it done right and to be done with it. The new engine has more power and sounds great. I feel your pain, but the dealer should be doing all the work here.

Not sure if this is directed at this thread, but almost every point does not relate to what actually transpired.

 

[Bedrck47]

Not sure if this is directed at this thread, but almost every point does not relate to what actually transpired.

I am sure he directed it to you and this thread especially the part in which he stated
" I feel your pain, but the dealer should be doing all the work here."

He is just saying what everyone else has said

 

[rcanfiel]

Picked up vehicle today.

Reman engine about $6,600 with tax.

POSITIVES
o Warranty company gave me $500 reduction (5 year coverage) when they heard I was planning to cancel since 1 year included
o Engine new with 3 year/100,000 mile warranty.
o May not help book value, but obviously worth a lot more to me than the $11,500 purchase price.
o timing chain and water pump new. That would have been costly to replace, given hard to access.
o cam phasers also new obviously.
o Prior engine had that ticking sound, now gone

NEGATIVES
o Question was raised about cat converters since it was running rich.
o Need to go after (used car) dealer to get some/most of this back. Not getting into details, but have a lot of stuff to bring to bear.

 

[rcanfiel]

I am sure he directed it to you and this thread especially the part in which he stated
" I feel your pain, but the dealer should be doing all the work here."

He is just saying what everyone else has said

I do not feel any pain. Would have been nice to not have this occur. I did my homework trying to minimize the potential problems with seller/year/model, but the risk is always there with an expensive complex vehicle bought used. I got the short straw, but then I dotted the I's, crossed the Ts. I may wind up with a new engine mostly paid for by someone else when all is said and done. Even if I get nothing, I think the vehicle as is, is worth (to me), the purchase price plus engine replacement cost.

The vehicle is exactly what I wanted.

 

[1955moose]

Wow! Am I reading this wrong, or did you have to pay $6,600 out of your pocket, and they paid $0. Gee how generous of them to give a $500.00 reduction, on something that they never paid up on that they should of. If that's what I'm reading, I'll reiterate Wow!


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[ManUpOrShutUp]

Picked up vehicle today.

Reman engine about $6,600 with tax.

POSITIVES
o Warranty company gave me $500 reduction (5 year coverage) when they heard I was planning to cancel since 1 year included
o Engine new with 3 year/100,000 mile warranty.
o May not help book value, but obviously worth a lot more to me than the $11,500 purchase price.
o timing chain and water pump new. That would have been costly to replace, given hard to access.
o cam phasers also new obviously.
o Prior engine had that ticking sound, now gone

NEGATIVES
o Question was raised about cat converters since it was running rich.
o Need to go after (used car) dealer to get some/most of this back. Not getting into details, but have a lot of stuff to bring to bear.

If you take the dealer to court, win and are able to collect the judgement then I would say it all worked out. That's a lot of "ifs" though. Personally, I would have left that dealership with a full refund in hand or a pocketful of the owner's teeth.

 

[rcanfiel]

Wow! Am I reading this wrong, or did you have to pay $6,600 out of your pocket, and they paid $0. Gee how generous of them to give a $500.00 reduction, on something that they never paid up on that they should of. If that's what I'm reading, I'll reiterate Wow!


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$500 had nothing to do with the warranty company that rejected the claim. Was the warranty I originally bought to go with the vehicle. The $6,600 out of pocket has not been pursued yet. As said, just getting new timing chain and water pump in already reduced the cost significantly.

pocketful of teeth? A few years in prison is likely more expensive than what I will wind up with.

 

[1955moose]

Good luck in court!


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[ManUpOrShutUp]

pocketful of teeth? A few years in prison is likely more expensive than what I will wind up with.

Hey I didn't say it would have been a wise move, but getting ripped off for $11K in a single day and, subsequently, being refused a full refund would have likely resulted in a loss of impulse control. In any case, enjoy your $18K lemon.

 

[Clemson82]

Keep us posted, I'm interested to see what happens with the dealership. How many miles does the warranty company cover? Fiver years is good, but what's the actually mileage limit?

 

[Daveyj]

Sorry, but a new jasper engine will not increase the value of your vehicle. A new Ford engine will not increase the value of your vehicle. Last time I checked Kbb or NADA didn't ask me how many miles were on my engine. They ask about miles on vehicle. Your engine replacement is considered a repair only.

 

[DesertFordRat]

Yes my comment was directed towards you. Good luck in recouping your cash though.

 

[rcanfiel]

Keep us posted, I'm interested to see what happens with the dealership. How many miles does the warranty company cover? Fiver years is good, but what's the actually mileage limit?

13,000 miles per year, which is my personal average. The company is Endurance, which had about as good a reputation as I could find