Tell me about the 3rd gen Ford Expedition...

[theoldwizard1]

I do not believe the "real fix" to the cam phaser problem was ever implemented on the 5.4L engine (I can't remember what it is called). Some of the cam phaser issue is related to insufficient oil pressure (leaking oil pumps). It IS on the second Gen 3.5L EcoBoost and some (all ?) of the 4 cylinder engines.

To the best of my knowledge, the new phaser can NOT be used on older engines.


(IIRC, and greatly over simplified, the old design used oil pressure to move the phaser. The new design relies mostly on the resistance of cam provided by the valve springs. Yes, oil pressure is involved, but it is only the "control", not the "muscle". The new design reacts slower at higher RPM, not that you would notice.)

 

[JExpedition07]

I’m not super knowledgeable on the subject but I know many post 06 engines go without ever having the issue. Where as 03-06 motors many got it.

 

[Allen Miller]

Some of the post 06 engines never see a camphaser issue listen to it when you see it. Listen for a very heavy clicking and ticking.

Ok. I'm pretty familiar with the noise, from when I was purchasing one for my brother... Some of the ones I looked at had this really nasty rhythmic grinding sound.

 

[JExpedition07]

I do not believe the "real fix" to the cam phaser problem was ever implemented on the 5.4L engine (I can't remember what it is called). Some of the cam phaser issue is related to insufficient oil pressure (leaking oil pumps). It IS on the second Gen 3.5L EcoBoost and some (all ?) of the 4 cylinder engines.

To the best of my knowledge, the new phaser can NOT be used on older engines.


(IIRC, and greatly over simplified, the old design used oil pressure to move the phaser. The new design relies mostly on the resistance of cam provided by the valve springs. Yes, oil pressure is involved, but it is only the "control", not the "muscle". The new design reacts slower at higher RPM, not that you would notice.)

If ford gave these a real oil gauge in the dash they would have been able to see symptoms but nope they were too cheap. Pressure is either in the middle or at zero when it’s too late. It’s just a switch so you can’t see if you have slightly low pressure.

 

[theoldwizard1]

If ford gave these a real oil gauge in the dash they would have been able to see symptoms but nope they were too cheap. Pressure is either in the middle or at zero when it’s too late. It’s just a switch so you can’t see if you have slightly low pressure.

I have seen videos that show "low" oil pressure at idle. Not low enough to turn on the light, but certainly lower than typical.

But then again, how many "casual" drivers would notice that !

 

[scobar]

IMHO, it is a waste of money to swap O2 sensors. Somewhere along the line, they stopped installing the replaceable inline fuel filter. New pump ? Fuel ? Oil ?

Thanks for ALL the infos, the o2's would be swapped to ensure we are getting accurate readings, fuel pump would be replaced to ensure we have a strong/reliable unit in place, both for a piece of mind with the blower swap.

If ford gave these a real oil gauge in the dash they would have been able to see symptoms but nope they were too cheap. Pressure is either in the middle or at zero when it’s too late. It’s just a switch so you can’t see if you have slightly low pressure.

It may be as simple as swapping the sending unit used for oil pressure, it may require modifying the cluster.
Example on cluster mod: http://www.sccoa.com/articles/oilgauge.php
The sender swap was popular with the mustang/5.0 group.

 

[JExpedition07]

I have seen videos that show "low" oil pressure at idle. Not low enough to turn on the light, but certainly lower than typical.

But then again, how many "casual" drivers would notice that !

I don’t know about 03-06 but 07-14 isn’t capable of showing slightly low pressure it’s all or nothing.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I don’t know about 03-06 but 07-14 isn’t capable of showing slightly low pressure it’s all or nothing.

Just saw that on a video ! That would REALLY piss me off !

 

[ExpeditionAndy]

Cam phaser issues in the 5.4 were all cleared up in the 2010 model year you're good from 2010 on. Oil pressure gauge on the 03-06 is just a switch. When you have pressure the gauge moves to the middle when you don't have pressure the gauge doesn't move. There is no actual pressure reading.

The new cam phasers are updated and if your replace what's in your engine you will have the current design. Do follow theoldwisard1's advice and replace everything once you decide to do the cam phasers and timing chains, tensioners, guides, solenoids, etc., but by the time you do that you might just find a low mileage 5.4 from a 2010 model or older and drop that in, because you will still have cylinders, pistons and rings that 260k miles on them.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Oil pressure gauge on the 03-06 is just a switch. When you have pressure the gauge moves to the middle when you don't have pressure the gauge doesn't move. There is no actual pressure reading.

This is part of a 2014 wiring diagram. Looks like the same switch to me.

 

[TXFishin]

I recently purchased a 2012 EL Limited 4X4 w/120 k miles as a family / tow vehicle.

It has the heavy duty tow package and air suspension, tows my 7k lb boat really well.

The vehicle appeared to be in immaculate condition, spotless CarFax, like new inside and out, loaded with every option available, DVD players, second row captain chairs heated and cooled seats front and back, sun/moon roof, the list goes on..., very well maintained and serviced.

However, I have been disappointed in the amount of repairs that have surfaced in the two months of ownership that were needed.

I'm hoping it has just been a fluke and I'll be good for a long time, but list of repairs have included the following so far (some are typical maintenance items and were expected on a used vehicle, while others have been VERY costly)

All of the items listed below were DIY except the manifold studs / bolts and transmission and transfer case, so if anyone has questions on doing any of these repairs send me a PM

The manifold studs required the engine to be pulled otherwise I would have tackled this myself, it was not cheap at ALL, the transmission and transfer case were not an easy bill to swallow either, I did not anticipate needing rebuilds on those at 120k miles.

- Tires
- AGM Battery
- Brakes and Rotors
- All fluids and filters
- Manifold studs / bolts replaced (broken studs on both passenger and driver's side)
- Front Bearing hub assemblies (bad bearings, not difficult to replace for DIY, but the parts are pricey)
- IWE Actuators (leaking vacuum, not difficult to replace for DIY)
- IWE Vacuum Solenoid (replaced for precautionary measures)
- Rebuilt the Transmission and Transfer Case
- Replaced Front Pinion and Axle Seals, starting to leak

Basically, other than the engine, differential, and shocks, the entire drivetrain has either been replaced or rebuilt.

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk

 

[TXFishin]

Also, be warned there is no easy way to check the transmission fluid level, must have taken some real genius's at Ford to design that

http://thephuck.com/uncategorized/h...07-expedition-and-2009-f150-6-speed-automatic

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk

 

[JExpedition07]

The whole premise behind the tranny is simple. They make so we can’t checj the level by putting the dipstick next to a 2,000 degree cat that you have to touch to check. They want you to bring it to a dealer or to blow it up and sell a replacement.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I recently purchased a 2012 EL Limited 4X4 w/120 k miles as a family / tow vehicle.

My daughter has almost the exact same vehicle minus heavy duty tow package and air suspension. (They added the HD radiator and transmission cooler and tow a 7k lb travel trailer.) It is the same model year and only has 80k miles.

The manifold studs required the engine to be pulled otherwise I would have tackled this myself, ...

NOT TRUE ! My daughter just had the left exhaust manifold replaced and they did NOT remove the engine. Very tight, but it can be done. I think "book time" is 2 hours.

... the transmission and transfer case were not an easy bill to swallow either, ...

I can not imagine what repairs had to be done to the transmission and transfer case.

Sadly, the air suspension will probably bite you sooner rather than later.

 

[ExpeditionAndy]

I recently purchased a 2012 EL Limited 4X4 w/120 k miles as a family / tow vehicle.

- Tires
- AGM Battery
- Brakes and Rotors
- All fluids and filters
- Manifold studs / bolts replaced (broken studs on both passenger and driver's side)
- Front Bearing hub assemblies (bad bearings, not difficult to replace for DIY, but the parts are pricey)
- IWE Actuators (leaking vacuum, not difficult to replace for DIY)
- IWE Vacuum Solenoid (replaced for precautionary measures)
- Rebuilt the Transmission and Transfer Case
- Replaced Front Pinion and Axle Seals, starting to leak

Basically, other than the engine, differential, and shocks, the entire drivetrain has either been replaced or rebuilt.

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk

My 05 had 146K on it when I traded it in on the 17. It had the original transmission, I had the bearings replaced in the transfer case around 135K and a rear wheel bearing. The IWE hubs were fine. I did have to replace the air compressor for the air suspension at about 125K but other than that the air suspension worked fine.

It sounds like you have a truck that was used hard. The good news is that now that work has been completed you probably will not have to do anything to it except normal maintenance from here on out.

 

[TXFishin]

My 05 had 146K on it when I traded it in on the 17. It had the original transmission, I had the bearings replaced in the transfer case around 135K and a rear wheel bearing. The IWE hubs were fine. I did have to replace the air compressor for the air suspension at about 125K but other than that the air suspension worked fine.

It sounds like you have a truck that was used hard. The good news is that now that work has been completed you probably will not have to do anything to it except normal maintenance from here on out.

I sure hope it's the end of replacing things for awhile!

The IWE's were still working, not to the point of rubbing yet, but were leaking a little more than should have when I tested the vacuum system, they were replaced as part of my troubleshooting on the intermittent grinding / scraping sound which turned out to be the transfer case. The IWE's were not as difficult to replace as I originally thought, took under an hour per side, about 45 minutes

The transmission was starting to slip and shift bad, after reading up, I have two friends with Expeditions, one had his replaced at 85k and the other at 146k. I've seen reports on transmission issues ranging from 50k to 250k, but in general the majority of the rebuild / replace seems to occur between 120k and 150k

 

[TXFishin]

My daughter has almost the exact same vehicle minus heavy duty tow package and air suspension. (They added the HD radiator and transmission cooler and tow a 7k lb travel trailer.) It is the same model year and only has 80k miles.


NOT TRUE ! My daughter just had the left exhaust manifold replaced and they did NOT remove the engine. Very tight, but it can be done. I think "book time" is 2 hours.


I can not imagine what repairs had to be done to the transmission and transfer case.

Sadly, the air suspension will probably bite you sooner rather than later.

Was it just a cracked manifold? I had several studs broken off, no way to get the tools in there to remove the studs or I would have tackled it myself.

The shop time I seen was 6 to 8 hours per side, taken to several shops and a dealer

 

[JExpedition07]

I sure hope it's the end of replacing things for awhile!

The IWE's were still working, not to the point of rubbing yet, but were leaking a little more than should have when I tested the vacuum system, they were replaced as part of my troubleshooting on the intermittent grinding / scraping sound which turned out to be the transfer case. The IWE's were not as difficult to replace as I originally thought, took under an hour per side, about 45 minutes

The transmission was starting to slip and shift bad, after reading up, I have two friends with Expeditions, one had his replaced at 85k and the other at 146k. I've seen reports on transmission issues ranging from 50k to 250k, but in general the majority of the rebuild / replace seems to occur between 120k and 150k

My tranny is going to have to be replaced too. On cold winter like mornings it revs up before shifting for the first few shifts and once in a great while up shifts hard coming off of a downshift. (Not completely Stopping then re hitting gas when light turns green). At this point I’m waiting till it blows out. My mechanic said it could be a week, or three years. He said some of these 6R trannys will act up for years before blowing up.

 

[TXFishin]

The whole premise behind the tranny is simple. They make so we can’t checj the level by putting the dipstick next to a 2,000 degree cat that you have to touch to check. They want you to bring it to a dealer or to blow it up and sell a replacement.

I've heard a few mechanics say they designed it to be a "throw away" transmission.

I did read where placing the fluid level at the lower mark would put the fluid at the correct level when warm, but doesn't sound very accurate to me.

I'm surprised someone hasn't come up with an extension tube / dipstick to remedy this, but I guess most people today just drive their vehicle and pay $$$ out the rear for service thinking that is just part of owning a vehicle. Long gone seems the days of DIY.

 

[Adieu]

Also, be warned there is no easy way to check the transmission fluid level, must have taken some real genius's at Ford to design that

http://thephuck.com/uncategorized/h...07-expedition-and-2009-f150-6-speed-automatic

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk

Not a Ford design.

It's a licensed ZF copy, I was amazed (and concerned) to find out I have the same tranny just ZF-branded in my BMW 335d sports sedan (which already has some pretty hard shifts @ 165k)