Towing questions.

[Ed Fogle]

It usually the payload number that really limits you with the Expy. 9200 tow rating is very nice, but if your payload capacity isn't up to ***** then it really affects how the set up rides.

Jason's sticker says 1460lb max payload, but my Expy is only 1402lb, I imagine because it's Eddie Bauer version, perhaps more options, usually means less payload.

In my case....

• Hitch weight of trailer, 700
• battery, 45
• propane tanks full, 30
• Stuff in front storage compartment of RV (grill, chairs, tools, hoses, etc) conservative 50
• Equalizer hitch set up, 100
• Cooler in back of Expy, 40
• Large Rotty dog, 120
• My fat azz, 280
• Wife, 120

1485lbs : over by 83lb

Now, a true metric would be going to scale and have it really tested, but this is just a rough estimate. So, I'm often over my payload capacity on trips. It stinks, just the two of us and the dog and we're over. Can't even invite anyone for fear of really pushing the limit. Lately I've been moving stuff around to reduce the weight on the hitch. Nix the cooler, move items out of front storage to back over the axles in the RV, only filling one of the two propane tanks when really needed, running lean. Need to get on a diet too, that would definitely help, easier said than done.

My point is, tow capacity is really just one factor in the over-all set up and for an Expy the payload capacity is the true limiting factor.

I’m wondering why you add the battery and propane weight to hitch weight. I would think the battery(s) is always on the trailer and you might as well always assume full propane. Same goes for gear in the forward cargo compartment of trailer. The hitch weight is the hitch weight regardless of how you arrived at it.

As an aside my 2017 Limited 4x4 shows occupant and cargo(payload) is 1356#. Taking the GVWR of 7500# and full fuel of 28 gallons for 168# this calculates out to an empty weight of 5976#. It’s difficult to come up with the advertised empty weight. The specs I’ve found online give a curb weight of 5562# but don’t distinguish for trim lines, accessories or options such as 4x4. But the 5976# number calculates to an additional weight of my Expy of 414# versus a bare bones one. Even worse it’s 582# heavier if curb weight includes full fuel. This is almost as bad as general aviation airplanes where the actual weight is usually far greater than the advertised weight.

All that said, if you take my car empty, add my 200# and full fuel I am at a max towing capacity of 8856#, definitely less than the max towing capacity of 9200#. Much less if you through some cargo in the Expy. So, from a practical standpoint, it’s unlikely any of us can tow the advertised 9200#.

 

[Thomas Warden]

First, I've found a lot of useful information on this thread, but I'm still a little confused (not ever figuring up tow weights, etc.). I see "occupant and Payload" mentioned a lot on this thread. Is that the same as "Combined Weight/ Not to Exceed.." as it is printed on my door post sticker? On my Hitch, it is labeled "Weight Distributing 9,300 lbs. / Tow weight 930 lbs." also "Weight Carrying 6,000 lbs / Tow weight 600 lbs." Do I interpret this to mean that if I have a Weight Distributing Hitch set up (which I do for my camper), I could (theoretically) tow up to a 9,000 lb. (gross weight) camper? I don't think I have the HD Tow Package.

Here is what my Door Post Stickers read on my 2019 Expedition XLT:

GVWR: 7,400
Front GAWR: 3,375
Rear GAWR: 4,200
Combined Weight of Occupants and Cargo should never Exceed: 1,719

I hate to sound so dumb, but I just want to be safe. Thanks for everyone's help and comments on this subject!

 

[Fasttimes]

I’m wondering why you add the battery and propane weight to hitch weight. I would think the battery(s) is always on the trailer and you might as well always assume full propane. Same goes for gear in the forward cargo compartment of trailer. The hitch weight is the hitch weight regardless of how you arrived at it.

As an aside my 2017 Limited 4x4 shows occupant and cargo(payload) is 1356#. Taking the GVWR of 7500# and full fuel of 28 gallons for 168# this calculates out to an empty weight of 5976#. It’s difficult to come up with the advertised empty weight. The specs I’ve found online give a curb weight of 5562# but don’t distinguish for trim lines, accessories or options such as 4x4. But the 5976# number calculates to an additional weight of my Expy of 414# versus a bare bones one. Even worse it’s 582# heavier if curb weight includes full fuel. This is almost as bad as general aviation airplanes where the actual weight is usually far greater than the advertised weight.

All that said, if you take my car empty, add my 200# and full fuel I am at a max towing capacity of 8856#, definitely less than the max towing capacity of 9200#. Much less if you through some cargo in the Expy. So, from a practical standpoint, it’s unlikely any of us can tow the advertised 9200#.

My hitch weight from the mfg is 760#, that is for empty propane tanks and does not include your battery of choice nor anything in the forward compartment. All this adds to the weight on that tongue. Now, a scale is the obvious true indicator, but erring on the side of caution I can do the math.

 

[Ed Fogle]

My hitch weight from the mfg is 760#, that is for empty propane tanks and does not include your battery of choice nor anything in the forward compartment. All this adds to the weight on that tongue. Now, a scale is the obvious true indicator, but erring on the side of caution I can do the math.

Hitch weight from the manufacturer should be verified by weighing the trailer loaded for travel. It’s not real easy but I’d never go by the manufacturer number.

But before you weigh make sure the trailer is loaded the way it normally would be when traveling. Also, the battery and propane won’t add as much to hitch weight as they way. It’s not just weight it’s balance, also.

 

[chuck s]

A recurring subject on camping and truck forums. Usually someone has made purchased with incomplete information or duped by salesmen.

Not sure how many different trailers are in this thread but the OP's Expedition cannot tow his proposed trailer. Unloaded/empty weight is pure fiction and should never be used to determine tow-ability regardless of what the trailer salesman says.

Also keep in mind that to safely tow a conventional trailer (vs boat trailer) you need between 10%-15% of the trailer's weight on the tongue. My trailers have needed tongue weights toward the 15% end of the scale. While the "maximum towing capacity" of my Expedition is 9300 pounds, safe towing could easily require that 15% or well 1400 pounds on the ball which the truck can't take. Even at 10% that's 930 pounds.

Don't automatically think the F150 is the solution. Some of these are less capable than my Expedition.

-- Chuck

 

[Greg Coleman]

While we're on the subject... I have a '16 Limited with heavy tow package. I'm shopping for an open car hauler that with the car, will be around 5000 lbs. Total payload of 1240. (4 people X 160 Avg = 640 + 600lbs of tongue weight= 1240 with 1357 payload on the sticker.) Most of the time just 2 people, which leaves me room for 300+lbs of cooler, canopy, chairs, etc.. I've got a Curt WDH that I'm going to go through the whole set-up process with (at a public scale) once I get a trailer.
Two questions:
- A LOT of the trailers I have looked at have either a tongue jack cross member, or the e-brake battery, or SOMETHING right where the brackets for the weight bars should mount!! Have you guys run into this, and what did you do about it?

-I've had more than one guy tell me I don't need a WDH for this set-up. Maybe not on the pool table that is S.E. Michigan, but I plan on some trips through the Smokies and Appalachians.

All inputs appreciated.

 

[chuck s]

I have no idea how a Curt WDH works or how well but my Equalizer not only distributes weight across all axles but includes sway control. Very similar in the photos to the Curt TruTrack setup. I think sway control is vital and the friction sliders work poorly and need to be disconnected before backing the trailer. The integrated Ford controller, though, handles my occasional UHaul trailers just fine with no sway control on the trailer.

Conventional trailers (meaning not boat trailers) need 10% to 15% of the trailer weight on the ball which if you're 5000 pounds can be as much as 750 which will overload the truck's 600 pound maximum tongue weight unless you have a WDH -- so, yeah, you need one.

Most of us underestimate our trailer's loaded weight so getting it weighed is a good idea.

-- Chuck

 

[RustyOval]

About to make an offer on travel trailer and am trying to decide if weights are too much. First Expedition and first trailer so excuse ignorance. Looking at specs says trailer dry weight 8000lbs and trailer can be loaded to 9600lbs. With the better hitch shows 9200lbs max so as long as don’t load camper over 9200 should be good to go? Also hitch weight 695 and they have the Equalizer branded 4 point load equalizer Hitch & sway bars.

That is WAY too much trailer for an Expy. My TT is 6,300# dry weight and I am maxed out to my payload. No Expy will pull a 9,200# camper no matter what the manufacturer says. It's all about payload.