Down here people are generally honest (except for the Nigerian princes) and the guy who sold me the vehicle let his son use it for college so for all I know the JB Weld fun fest could've been his son and the owner genuinely didn't know about it. I gave him the benefit of the doubt despite his not answering his phone when I called. But that one's hard to miss when it leaked everytime you got the tank past 3/4 full.
Where do I find a NEW fuel tank?!
- Thread starter MattP1976
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I didn't expect him to volunteer anything - but when I ask I do expect the truth.
1955moose
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Brian, when you buy a car or a property, the salesman or owner is your best friend. But once the Benjamin's are in their hand, the friendships off. I've posted it here how many times, have a mechanic or yourself do a stem to stern inspection. Even doing that, crap hides. Like the first rainstorm, or in your case first top up of tank. You move along, fix the problems, and face another day. They'll be something else that will pop up in your life this week, it's just life!
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What heck, in that case I would've never known it was a problem. I haven't had a car above half a tank and decades.
WakeZone
Member
Went thru this a while back, what a pain in the ars. There were no new tanks to be found anywhere. Thinking if I got one from a yard, how much longer til those tank fittings crack, also my tank is in good shape, other than the one fitting, why waste that. Considered JB 2-part marine grade adhesive but decided I wanted this to be a 1-and-done situation, so got off my wallet and bought AMS-S-8802 B2 fuel tank sealant from aircraft spruce for $37.50, (1) 3.5 ounce syringe will do all the fittings. B2 is a nasty-awesome fuel tank sealant that sticks to everything, cures to a hard rubber and lasts for decades.
Here's how I went about it (now 1.5 yrs, no issues)
1. Cap off water tight all openings and scrub the crap out of the top of the tank around all the fittings with Dawn soap, get rid of all oil/grease/fuel residue. Rinse and Let dry fully.
2. Lightly scuff all around each fitting with sandpaper or scotch brite. Do all the fittings while you have the tank dropped, there might be another crack waiting to open up.
3. Rubber gloves... Mask off connector nipples. Mix the B2 sealant per instructions, and spatula around fitting base flanges with a little extra pressed into any cracks.
Working time is 2 hours, cures to usable condition in 24hrs.
4. Ensure all fuel line connectors lock properly; trim sealant if required.
5. Install tank and get-to-gettin!
Cheers!
Here's how I went about it (now 1.5 yrs, no issues)
1. Cap off water tight all openings and scrub the crap out of the top of the tank around all the fittings with Dawn soap, get rid of all oil/grease/fuel residue. Rinse and Let dry fully.
2. Lightly scuff all around each fitting with sandpaper or scotch brite. Do all the fittings while you have the tank dropped, there might be another crack waiting to open up.
3. Rubber gloves... Mask off connector nipples. Mix the B2 sealant per instructions, and spatula around fitting base flanges with a little extra pressed into any cracks.
Working time is 2 hours, cures to usable condition in 24hrs.
4. Ensure all fuel line connectors lock properly; trim sealant if required.
5. Install tank and get-to-gettin!
Cheers!
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blue oval guy
Well-Known Member
LKQ has anything you need as far as used parts, no i dont work for them, have had some good success with body parts..
The issue with AMS-S-8802 B2:
While AMS-S-8802 B2 (e.g., PPG PR-1440 B-2 or Flamemaster CS-3204 B-2) is a highly durable, fuel-resistant aerospace polysulfide sealant, it is not structurally compatible with untreated HDPE. Like most sealants, it relies on specific surface energy to bond, and HDPE's naturally low surface energy makes it extremely difficult to adhere to without special preparation.
If you choose adhesive route - these are structural adhesives and specifically designed for bonding with HDPE and do not require any pre-treatment beyond clean surface with alcohol, sanding it would be even better:
1. 3M Scotch-Weld Structural Plastic Adhesive DP8005 (medium viscosity)
2. Permabond TA4605 Polyolefin Bonder (gel consistency)
Those could be applied as preventive care over entire vent surface to seal it off.
I will test both on empty glass cleaner container (HDPE). The key is adhesive bond strength with HDPE (low energy surface) and elasticity - this is where epoxy fails. JB weld is brittle and it snaps like a match stick on bending and it is not structural adhesive type. So no wonder it failed on me 2 times. I hope epoxy removal will be easy, as it really could not adhere to the vent HDPE substrate.
I am pretty good with plastic welding, but I am not very comfortable with using plastic welding method on fuel tank due to fire hazard, as it would require full evacuation of the gas from the tank, removing fuel pump and drying it off. Also you can not use plastic welding as preventative care as you could potentially damage working vent while applying extra material over the vent surface and it would be very time consuming activity.
As you can see my endoscope already celebrating 4th of July
While AMS-S-8802 B2 (e.g., PPG PR-1440 B-2 or Flamemaster CS-3204 B-2) is a highly durable, fuel-resistant aerospace polysulfide sealant, it is not structurally compatible with untreated HDPE. Like most sealants, it relies on specific surface energy to bond, and HDPE's naturally low surface energy makes it extremely difficult to adhere to without special preparation.
If you choose adhesive route - these are structural adhesives and specifically designed for bonding with HDPE and do not require any pre-treatment beyond clean surface with alcohol, sanding it would be even better:
1. 3M Scotch-Weld Structural Plastic Adhesive DP8005 (medium viscosity)
2. Permabond TA4605 Polyolefin Bonder (gel consistency)
Those could be applied as preventive care over entire vent surface to seal it off.
I will test both on empty glass cleaner container (HDPE). The key is adhesive bond strength with HDPE (low energy surface) and elasticity - this is where epoxy fails. JB weld is brittle and it snaps like a match stick on bending and it is not structural adhesive type. So no wonder it failed on me 2 times. I hope epoxy removal will be easy, as it really could not adhere to the vent HDPE substrate.
I am pretty good with plastic welding, but I am not very comfortable with using plastic welding method on fuel tank due to fire hazard, as it would require full evacuation of the gas from the tank, removing fuel pump and drying it off. Also you can not use plastic welding as preventative care as you could potentially damage working vent while applying extra material over the vent surface and it would be very time consuming activity.
As you can see my endoscope already celebrating 4th of July
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As preventive case, I replaced EVAP components that could be next shoe to fall: Purge Valve, Purge valve to manifold hose (external layer was crumbling, used one from F150 - exact fit on 5.4L 2V), canister vent valve solenoid, and OEM gas tank cap. The rusted/rotted fuel filler assembly was replaced earlier when EVAP small leak started.
I did not do smoke test the last time, only visual inspection with endoscope. So visually it may look like crack, but it looks like the vents are holding up even with epoxy. The prime suspect is the canister vent valve solenoid - it is normally open when engine is off and closed when engine is running. As EVAP tests are done on running engine - it could be a contributor to the small leak. Also it is normal to smell gasoline vapor especially on the hot day when you just shut off your engine as the canister vent valve will open to release any vapor pressure in the fuel system, so you can open your gas tank cap to refuel and etc. But you should not smell gasoline vapor when engine is running/idling as the vent valve is closed and any excess vapor is collected in the canister and then released into intake manifold by the purge valve when conditions are right to burn it.
After erase of pending small leak code P0456. All emission tests including EVAP system are completed after ~ 80 miles round trip with highway 70%.
So I do not need to touch the tank at this point. The HDPE adhesive test with 3M DP8005 yielded excellent results - I used two plastic strips from empty Windshield washer fluid container (HDPE is clearly/literally marked at the bottom on all recyclable containers and it has natural milky color and semi transparent). The prep was swiping it with alcohol. There is no way to take apart those now without destroying the strips itself and the bond is flexible. Will try Permabond TA4605 when I get it, as it provides 10-15 mins work time and simple 1:1 ratio. 3M is 10:1 ratio and only 3 mins of working time, so you should be very quick after 3M is mixed. Those adhesives are based on chemical bond, not mechanical bond (epoxy and etc.)
I created 3D model sketch for the valve sleeve, just need to measure and enter the values into the model. I ordered the extra tank from salvage yard to work on the spare as it may take some time to fix it for good without the need to drop tank from my car, but not sure this transaction will complete.
I did not do smoke test the last time, only visual inspection with endoscope. So visually it may look like crack, but it looks like the vents are holding up even with epoxy. The prime suspect is the canister vent valve solenoid - it is normally open when engine is off and closed when engine is running. As EVAP tests are done on running engine - it could be a contributor to the small leak. Also it is normal to smell gasoline vapor especially on the hot day when you just shut off your engine as the canister vent valve will open to release any vapor pressure in the fuel system, so you can open your gas tank cap to refuel and etc. But you should not smell gasoline vapor when engine is running/idling as the vent valve is closed and any excess vapor is collected in the canister and then released into intake manifold by the purge valve when conditions are right to burn it.
After erase of pending small leak code P0456. All emission tests including EVAP system are completed after ~ 80 miles round trip with highway 70%.
So I do not need to touch the tank at this point. The HDPE adhesive test with 3M DP8005 yielded excellent results - I used two plastic strips from empty Windshield washer fluid container (HDPE is clearly/literally marked at the bottom on all recyclable containers and it has natural milky color and semi transparent). The prep was swiping it with alcohol. There is no way to take apart those now without destroying the strips itself and the bond is flexible. Will try Permabond TA4605 when I get it, as it provides 10-15 mins work time and simple 1:1 ratio. 3M is 10:1 ratio and only 3 mins of working time, so you should be very quick after 3M is mixed. Those adhesives are based on chemical bond, not mechanical bond (epoxy and etc.)
I created 3D model sketch for the valve sleeve, just need to measure and enter the values into the model. I ordered the extra tank from salvage yard to work on the spare as it may take some time to fix it for good without the need to drop tank from my car, but not sure this transaction will complete.
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Permabond TA4605 Polyolefin Bonder (gel consistency) failed miserably on first test, possibly mixing was not done well. But second test was successful. Both test was done by manual mixing of small amount and this adhesive is gel like, so it is not simple to properly mix two parts together. I tried to rip second sample apart by hands - not possible. So using mixing adapter is critical in both cases.
Will try 3M DP8010 Blue, as it allows 10 mins working time and 4 x higher resistance to the gasoline vs. DP8005.
Will try 3M DP8010 Blue, as it allows 10 mins working time and 4 x higher resistance to the gasoline vs. DP8005.
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