WTH is this ticking/banging noise!?

[agford4x4]

Just got done towing 7k trailer from Texas to Michigan and back. Expy performs fine, no issues at all, but it developed a really loud ticking/knocking noise. No codes of any kind, no performance problems. I changed the plugs today since it has 103,000 miles. The noise can be pinpointed to the base of the #8 Injector (drivers side rear). I am pretty sure its that, but not certain as I cannot hear the noise that well without a scope from the top of the motor. From the wheel or underneath it sounds like my diesel banging around. You can hear it in the valve cover on that side, but its really really faint. I'm not sure where it originates but it is around the rear driver's side somewhere.

Anyone have any ideas?

2013 Expy EL 5.4L

Any insight is appreciated.

 

[stamp11127]

Disconnect/unplug the injector and see if it stops.

 

[1955moose]

Ticking noises usually are valve/ upper end related. Louder deeper knocking noises are usually lower end. Main bearing, lower connecting rod bearing failure. As stamp stated you might have a malfunctioning worn injector. They will cause a ticky sound similar to a loose rocker arm. Years back when I worked with Datsun 810, 260, 280 z, they had very ticky injectors. It fooled me thinking I had loose rocker arms. If the removal of #8 injector plug, or #7 plug. Could be either one, doesn't change the noise, You or your mechanic will need to pull that valve cover checking for wear. The rear cam lifters have problems with oiling in some cases, and can freeze in their bores, causing an abundance of valve clearance of that cylinder.


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[Hayes Riviere]

This is no way relevant to your inquiry, but did you said: "it sounds like my diesel banging around". Is your Expedition a diesel? My dad and I have got practically the exact same cars as you: 2013 expedition ELs with the Triton 5.4 V8.

 

[1955moose]

Hayes at the end of his post he states the year and engine 5.4, not a diesel, just sounds like one.


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[docraymund]

If its louder underneath, it could be the connecting rod bearing. Do the screwdriver test. Remove #8 spark plug, put piston slightly past TDC. Then, with a large screwdriver try to push the piston down. If you feel a give, then you've found your problem.

 

[coach k]

The ticking noise is most likely the injector. The injectors are known to be loud. There is not a performance problem related to this, just noise. I've had it in my 04 with the 5.4L for quite some time.

 

[agford4x4]

If I pull off the connector on the FI in question, then that's not good for it to run and not fire. Also, this thing is a pig since the noise started. Passing a car at 50 mph is quite laborious and frightening. Sometimes you can't even get it to downshift, if you do, you can get the RPM up, but there is pretty much no change in power to move a lot faster.

 

[1955moose]

Your post is a little confusing. Did you pull the connecter to the injector in question in question? And did the noise stop? Your not supposed to drive it disconnected, as you'll only be working on 7 cylinders. The purpose of this test is 1, to see if noise stopped, and 2, if it did, after replacing noisy injector, did power come back. You'll need to replace the bad injector in question.


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[agford4x4]

No, I did not pull the injector connector yet. Just wanted to make sure it was safe to do. Its probably going to throw a misfire code though, lol.

 

[1955moose]

Well let's hope so! Were just trying to eliminate your ticking banging noise. This is only your first step. You more than likely have multiple issues with your vehicle, our gang is just trying to eliminate 1.


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[1955moose]

Remember your only going to pull first #8 connector, fire it up just for about 10 seconds or so. I'd do the same with #7 if doing the first connecter has no affect on noise. If the ticking sound goes away, then you've found your source of noise. Then you can replace that injector. If the noise continues, then your looking at pulling that valve cover, and going deeper. Let's hope your problem is simple.


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[agford4x4]

I pulled the plug off the injectors I thought were bad. The noise does not change. Interestingly, the engine idle did not change either, in fact, it didn't seem to miss either injector being unplugged at all (one at a time of course). Same with injector #7. I found that weird. I would have expected a code or rough idle.

The noise is somewhere around the valve cover in the driver side rear. I can hear it through the injector, I can hear it through the intake, and I can hear it a little in the valve cover itself. I can also hear it from underneath in the head, but not so much in the block. So it's got to be valve related. Maybe my rocker or lash adjuster has failed? I cannot hear it clearly from the same spots on the passenger side. I also unplugged the VCT Solenoids on both sides, and there was no change in the noise or idle or anything.

 

[agford4x4]

Not sure I want to get into something that no one has seen before. It has potential to be super cheap or super expensive, maybe time to schedule an appt with Ford.

If its a failed lifter or roller follower (which shouldn't be the case since they updated them all), then that should be a pretty cheap fix. If its deeper or more involved, then I don't want to be involved with it torn apart on my drive anyhow.

 

[1955moose]

What your describing is a lifter/ rocker arm problem. Very common on the rear cylinders #4 and #8. Oiling can get scetchy on some of the second and third gen motors, especially if the past owner wasn't diligent on oil changes, or ran the motor low on oil. Short of pulling the valve cover and rockers for inspection, your done for now. You should have had a slowing of the motor when you pulled the injector plug. You stated in your first post that you had no noticeable power loss. With the lifter not functioning proper, I'm surprised your not down on power, as that banks valves aren't opening and closing proper. Well I guess it's time for the shop. Let us know what they find. Moose


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[agford4x4]

I AM the previous owner. Ive owned it since new and its had Motorcraft oil and filters its entire 100,000 mile life as required. It has never been low on oil or missed an oil change.

I have noticed lack of power while driving it as is. Its a pig. My concern is cam damage since its been driven many hundreds of miles TOWING like this. There was no choice really.

I guess I thought that Ford had addressed these issues in the follower/valve train by 2013. What are the odds that its as simple as yanking out a lifter and follower and replacing it?

I can change these parts, but so far, I cannot find anyone that has the information required for me to get the cam lobe in the proper position to remove the follower and lifter. I dont want to pull cams and phasers for a follower.

 

[1955moose]

Sorry, when I read your previous posts, you made it seem like it ran as new. Even my 2000 Eddie Bauer has the torque and horsepower to pull a trailer like yours. You should have over 70 more horsepower than mine, maybe more. I was watching a video online about 4 weeks back that shows how some of the 5.4 motors get one or two of their lifters stuck in their bores, due to lack of lubrication causing excessive heat. The results are lifters that don't open those valves. Having just one cylinder that's not operating is a tremendous strain on the other 7. Maybe one of our other forum members can school you on removing the rockers in question. Sorry I've never done that job on these vehicles. As far as the horsepower you've lost due to a bank being inoperative, it's over 35 horsepower you've lost, not to mention the torque, which is the most important.


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[agford4x4]

We'll see. Like I said, my concern is more about whether the cam shaft is damaged. If the roller is failed, that's a possibility. If its just a stuck lifter that won't pump up, then that's not a huge deal I don't think.

 

[1955moose]

The stuck lifter will mean can you save the siezed bore, or will that head have to be replaced. The camshaft can be inspected and measured for lift height. Either way you or someone's got to do some tear down. Let us know what you find. Enquiring minds want to know! Moose.


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[TDCorbett]

It's a pretty simple job actually. I had one on each side go out on my 07. You never have to mess with timing.


Once you get the valve cover off, take the bolts out of the cam, keeping pressure on it the whole time so you don't damage the threads and it doesn't fly out. When you get the bolts out the cam WILL have pressure so try to ease it out gently. Since the rocker arms usually go out on the back it works out well, just lift the back of the cam and leave the chain (on the sprocket on the front of the cam) where it is. Once you have the cam sitting comfortably you can just pick up whichever rocker arms you want to inspect and replace. Might as well inspect the lifters as well but is most likely a rocker arm. Also, you can inspect the cam at this point if you haven't already noticed any issues. Just compare the lobes on the back with the others and you'll definitely see if there is an issue.

Once you get the new parts in place, move the cam back into position and lightly snug all of the bolts, then torque them to spec (in the right order) and then just put everything else back.

Here are some pics from when I did mine so you know what to expect.

You can see how I just have the cam propped up. The picture of the rocker arms, you can see the front one is severely damaged, it wouldn't even move. Also you can see my cam is very worn on a couple lobes, I reused it and it sounded and drove perfect, BUT 30k miles later I'm about to dig in again because I have developed another tick. Not 100% sure but I suspect the cam tore my new rocker arm up.

Let me know if you need any more info on it. And good luck!