2004 Expedition cranks but doesn't fire/start

[nyjetfan]

Hey All - was hoping to get some input on my Expedition. Drove it yesterday, and stopped on way home to pick up some items to fix a plumbing leak at my house, and when I came out it would crank but wouldn't start/fire. So I came home, got some tools and went back to do some testing. Here's the testing I did and results. Not sure if it matters, but it has 217k miles on it and it was running fine when I shut it off.

1. Went to back cargo area and hit the reset button on the inertia switch to ensure that wasn't causing the issue. Tried starting after that and no change - would crank fine (cranks as fast as it normally does when it starts) and no firing.

2. Tried to open the fuel tank door and remove cap to listen for fuel pump running - did this several times and couldn't hear it turn on.

3. Popped open passenger kickpanel and located the dark green/yellow wire (one I found was in a plug up near top of the fuse box). I backprobed that wire with my multimeter - when key was turned to "ON" position, I'd see the multimeter jump up to 11.25-11.5 volts, and it would only stay there for maybe a second and drop down (I think it dropped to zero but not recalling).

4. Opened the hood, located the schrader valve on the fuel rail, and tried to bleed it off. I didn't have a fuel pressure gauge, but I would hit the valve inside and wouldn't hear anything bleeding off. I was expecting it to be like a tire where you push the middle "valve" and you would hear the pressure being released. Also tried holding the valve open while turning car to on and still heard nothing coming out.


So any ideas on what to check or conclusions as to what the issue might be? I'm probably towing it to my mechanic today as its near impossible to diagnose effectively in the middle of a parking lot, and based upon the fuel pump relay test and no pressure at schrader valve I'm 99.9% confident this is fuel related, and I'm leaning towards it being a fuel pump, but really need to get it somewhere that it can be diagnosed correctly.

Also, not sure it matters but earlier this week (Monday I think) when I got gas, I started it up and the first time it would try to run and be idling near 400-500 RPMs, then it stalled out. I turned it off and restarted the car and it ran perfectly fine until Thursday morning when the no start condition struck.

Appreciate any insight or input you might have into the matter.

Thanks.

 

[Bedrck47]

First check the battery voltage. Having a fully charged would be best.
Go back to the shutoff switch Check for voltage into and out of the switch You will need a helper to turn the engine over. If the expy doesn't start the voltage will drop off so you need to be quick when testing for voltage. Voltage should be the same or close to battery voltage. check for fuel pressure at the fuel rail. If you have the proper voltage coming from the shutoff switch and have no fuel pressure Then you either have a clogged fuel filter or bad pump. You could try removing the inlet hose to the fuel filter and check again.

If you have no voltage to the shutoff switch let me know and I will give you further information

 

[Bedrck47]

BTW Welcome to the forum

 

[nyjetfan]

First check the battery voltage. Having a fully charged would be best.
Go back to the shutoff switch Check for voltage into and out of the switch You will need a helper to turn the engine over. If the expy doesn't start the voltage will drop off so you need to be quick when testing for voltage. Voltage should be the same or close to battery voltage. check for fuel pressure at the fuel rail. If you have the proper voltage coming from the shutoff switch and have no fuel pressure Then you either have a clogged fuel filter or bad pump. You could try removing the inlet hose to the fuel filter and check again.

If you have no voltage to the shutoff switch let me know and I will give you further information

Thanks, you have some great diagnostic steps above and definitely would have nailed this quickly. I have actually taken it to my mechanic to have him look it over. I wasn't able to do a great deal of troubleshooting in the middle of a parking lot and didn't feel comfortable pulling apart different parts of the car when I had only limited tools (what I threw into a 5 gallon bucket to do some quick diagnosis) and my 12 year old son manning the key asking "are we done yet" after every time I had him go from off to on... LOL

Just got a call from the mechanic and he said he's fully confident the fuel pump quit - he was able to see power going to the pump but pump doesn't turn on nor does it push any fuel with fuel out with fuel line disconnected from fuel filter as you suggested above - and I'll be honest this isn't something I'd want to try to fix in my garage by myself, so I'm going to pony up the money to have it done and they also give a 12 month/12,000 mile warranty so I won't have to worry about it from this point on.

He's going to drop the tank today and replace pump, blow out the fuel lines and replace the fuel filter, and hopefully I will have it back later today.

 

[Bedrck47]

Thanks for your reply And do you realize that when your 12 Y O kept asking "are we done yet" that was payback from all the times that you asked "are we there yet" when you were his age. LOL

My money was on the fuel pump being bad just from your description of the problem and the mileage
Let the forum know how you make out.

 

[nyjetfan]

Thanks for your reply And do you realize that when your 12 Y O kept asking "are we done yet" that was payback from all the times that you asked "are we there yet" when you were his age. LOL

My money was on the fuel pump being bad just from your description of the problem and the mileage
Let the forum know how you make out.

Yes, I'm sure my 12 YO was repaying me for my youth, and I was comfortable with what I was able to accomplish that it was the fuel pump, but think its worth the $25 my guy will charge to do confirmation diagnostics at his shop (he has much cooler set of tools than I ever will

I think its time to call Ford - ONLY 217k miles from a fuel pump? I thought quality was job one? LOL

 

[stamp11127]

Really? Complaining about a pump that lasted over 4000 hours of runtime and cycled on/off who knows how many times.
You are fortunate - most fail far earlier than that.

 

[nyjetfan]

Really? Complaining about a pump that lasted over 4000 hours of runtime and cycled on/off who knows how many times.
You are fortunate - most fail far earlier than that.

Sorry if it didn't come through, I was kidding with that comment since my fuel pump probably lasted about twice as long as the average fuel pump does.

 

[Bedrck47]

I think its time to call Ford - ONLY 217k miles from a fuel pump? I thought quality was job one? LOL

If your the original owner then you would know its the original pump Otherwise I agree with stamp Most pumps fail long befor that.

And if you are the original owner then you also have been lucky that the fuel pump relay on the fuse box hasn't given you any problems.

Maybe you got one of the ones that Quality was JOB 1

 

[nyjetfan]

If your the original owner then you would know its the original pump Otherwise I agree with stamp Most pumps fail long befor that.

And if you are the original owner then you also have been lucky that the fuel pump relay on the fuse box hasn't given you any problems.

Maybe you got one of the ones that Quality was JOB 1

Well I can say I'm the original owner and that is the original fuel pump in the tank as well as the original cabin fuse box. With 217k, I wouldn't have been surprised to see either have issues, which is why I was content to send it to my mechanic after I was able to verify the voltage being output from the fuel pump relay figuring that it was probably something "downstream". If it was the fuel pump relay, I'd have done it myself using either a new box or probably just shipping it out to have the relay replaced.

Actually have been debating proactively doing the fuel pump relay or possibly finding a cheap cabin fuse box (junkyard or whatever) and having the relay replaced and carry it with me just in case.

And I'll be totally honest, while I was joking about the fuel pump "ONLY" lasting 217k miles, I will say quality was definitely job one on my Expedition as it continues to run well even after 217k miles and I've gotten my money's worth out of this vehicle and hope to see it hit 250-300k.