Audio help

[USMCBuckWild]

2012 Expy EL Limited with factory nav, factory dvd players in the headrests and factory sub.

I want to keep the factory headunit (too cheap to buy a different one that does all the same stuff), I already bought Polk DB 6501 components for the front doors, DB651s for rear doors, plan on running an older 12" shallow pioneer 2ohm sub (Pioneer TS-SW1201S2) in a custom fiberglass box in stock location.

My questions are these:

1. Has anyone added an amp to the stock wiring? Is there a stock amp for the door speakers?

If there isn't a stock amp powering the doors, I want to add a small in size 100x4 amp in the dash with speaker level inputs and push the 100 watts to the door speakers through factory wiring.

2. I plan on using the stock sub amp to power the 12. Since it is single voice coil and the stock amp is already running at 1.2 ohm per channel, I should (in theory) be able to run it bridged at 2ohms (1 ohm per channel). I do plan on upgrading to a dedicated sub amp in the future, just want to experiment this way to pass on a CHEAP DIY way for people to upgrade and get better sound from the stock enclosure and amp for cheap.


Suggestions? I have looked for wiring schematics and none seem to show a stock amp other than the sub amp.

 

[LEOL]

I cant really speak to the specifics of your vehicle, mainly because FORD typically has 2-4 different sound packages that can be present in any given vehicle model, which may or may not have an amplified head unit, AND/OR may or may not be in conjunction with a secondary Amp... so point of my response is, first you have to figure out exactly what sound package you actually have in your specific vehicle before you can really find specifics on your stock setup. because there may very well be 3 different wiring/equipment setups for your model year. i have owned many fords over the years... ive always found their inconsistency with their audio packages obnoxious, specifically when they offer 2 or 3 different "premium sound" packages on the same model year.

 

[USMCBuckWild]

I cant really speak to the specifics of your vehicle, mainly because FORD typically has 2-4 different sound packages that can be present in any given vehicle model, which may or may not have an amplified head unit, AND/OR may or may not be in conjunction with a secondary Amp... so point of my response is, first you have to figure out exactly what sound package you actually have in your specific vehicle before you can really find specifics on your stock setup. because there may very well be 3 different wiring/equipment setups for your model year. i have owned many fords over the years... ive always found their inconsistency with their audio packages obnoxious, specifically when they offer 2 or 3 different "premium sound" packages on the same model year.

So how do I narrow down which audio package I actually have? Been through the owners book, the sync handout, window sticker and searched the VIN.

 

[LEOL]

OEM audio integration gets more and more difficult and expensive every year it seems. i poked around briefly and from what i can tell it seems youre year pretty much had sync, and nav. both with and without subwoofer. like yourself, i didnt find much on schematics indicating any dual amp configurations, which i dont believe there are really many of honestly. the sub will more likely be driven by an amp, the big question is whether the am is multi-channel and drives the speakers too.

a quick trick is to just call a place such as crutchfield, sonicelectronix, best buy, or other car audio specialist and ask them... they usually have at least some kind of helpful info to offer if you are asking the right questions to the right person. but personally, id just go out to the car, find the amp (you should be able to dig up at least a location for it if you google hard enough) and take a look at the connectors on it... youll be able to tell pretty easily if it drives all of the speakers simply by the wires that connect in/out of it.

as i said before integrating into OEM systems nowadays most often requires adapters of sorts to prevent loss of use of vehicle features which can include steering controls, vehicle warning chimes and other important things. also in most cases even if your willing to bypass factory equipment... with oem systems tied into entertainment systems now... you often need expensive adapters just to be able to make use of the factory wiring harness with an aftermarket head/amp. So, if youre keeping the factory head unit, and introducing anything new to the audio system, You very well may want to call sonic or crutchfield anyway to get an idea of what you may need to do... either that or scour through some car audio forums. Sorry i cant really offer any definitive help on the matter... i havent really done more than 2 or 3 car audio projects in the last 5 years. too busy spending money on things i dont wanna pay for. Semper Fi though, and good luck.

 

[USMCBuckWild]

That is very informative, thank you!

I had my sub out, I packed the enclosure with holofil and it helped immensely, and its the DVC. That being said, the only amp I found is sub dedicated.

S/F

 

[USMCBuckWild]

OEM audio integration gets more and more difficult and expensive every year it seems. i poked around briefly and from what i can tell it seems youre year pretty much had sync, and nav. both with and without subwoofer. like yourself, i didnt find much on schematics indicating any dual amp configurations, which i dont believe there are really many of honestly. the sub will more likely be driven by an amp, the big question is whether the am is multi-channel and drives the speakers too.

a quick trick is to just call a place such as crutchfield, sonicelectronix, best buy, or other car audio specialist and ask them... they usually have at least some kind of helpful info to offer if you are asking the right questions to the right person. but personally, id just go out to the car, find the amp (you should be able to dig up at least a location for it if you google hard enough) and take a look at the connectors on it... youll be able to tell pretty easily if it drives all of the speakers simply by the wires that connect in/out of it.

as i said before integrating into OEM systems nowadays most often requires adapters of sorts to prevent loss of use of vehicle features which can include steering controls, vehicle warning chimes and other important things. also in most cases even if your willing to bypass factory equipment... with oem systems tied into entertainment systems now... you often need expensive adapters just to be able to make use of the factory wiring harness with an aftermarket head/amp. So, if youre keeping the factory head unit, and introducing anything new to the audio system, You very well may want to call sonic or crutchfield anyway to get an idea of what you may need to do... either that or scour through some car audio forums. Sorry i cant really offer any definitive help on the matter... i havent really done more than 2 or 3 car audio projects in the last 5 years. too busy spending money on things i dont wanna pay for. Semper Fi though, and good luck.

According to Crutchfield, there is a factory Amplifier inthe dash under the radio:

 

[LEOL]

sweet, good to know! is it sub dedicated or is that one for the rest of the system? the sub amp in fords are generally located in a rear quarter panel somewhere.

 

[USMCBuckWild]

sweet, good to know! is it sub dedicated or is that one for the rest of the system? the sub amp in fords are generally located in a rear quarter panel somewhere.

This one has to be for the rest of the system as the dedicated sub amp is located on the sub box in the rear quarter. I'm a bit ticked off to be honest; couldn't find info ANYWHERE about there being an amp for the rest of the system. Can't return the little 4x100 amp i bought to go in there. Unless I get creative and put it AFTER the factory amp.

 

[1955moose]

The problem with trying to use a small amp that puts out that much power 100 watts per channel x4 will be very high distortion. If your 2012 has a premium sound system like the earlier Mach stereo that I have in my first edition, you have a fairly low distortion 25 watts per channel. If your Polk separates are fairly efficient you will be fine, as long as your not expecting window rattling levels. The stock sub amp is about 35 watts, not window rattling, but I've had pioneer speakers, they are very efficient, it might be enough. If not you can wire a much larger Sub amp, and mount it out of sight in the rear. The larger box is definitely better than the small cubic foot stock location. Your shallow fit Pioneer may or may not give you the bass your looking for. If you want a smooth deep bass, a sealed box works well. If you like a hard hitting bass like for Rap, or Rock, you might look into a ported box. You already own the woofer, so ask your guys your getting box from, what cubic foot dimensions will work best with your Subs. Hope that helps, I've added a lot of speakers, and amps in the past. Some is science, some is trial and error. Bottom line it's got to sound as close to live, and sound good to you.


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[USMCBuckWild]

The problem with trying to use a small amp that puts out that much power 100 watts per channel x4 will be very high distortion. If your 2012 has a premium sound system like the earlier Mach stereo that I have in my first edition, you have a fairly low distortion 25 watts per channel. If your Polk separates are fairly efficient you will be fine, as long as your not expecting window rattling levels. The stock sub amp is about 35 watts, not window rattling, but I've had pioneer speakers, they are very efficient, it might be enough. If not you can wire a much larger Sub amp, and mount it out of sight in the rear. The larger box is definitely better than the small cubic foot stock location. Your shallow fit Pioneer may or may not give you the bass your looking for. If you want a smooth deep bass, a sealed box works well. If you like a hard hitting bass like for Rap, or Rock, you might look into a ported box. You already own the woofer, so ask your guys your getting box from, what cubic foot dimensions will work best with your Subs. Hope that helps, I've added a lot of speakers, and amps in the past. Some is science, some is trial and error. Bottom line it's got to sound as close to live, and sound good to you.


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I'm not new to the audio world, been out of the loop for awhile. The distortion on the amp is pretty low and the sensitivity is good. The Polk speakers are 91 db sensitivity while the Pioneer sub is 93. I am building the box to just shy of 1 cubic ft airspace, sealed as I prefer tight accurate bass. The stock sub amp is rated at 55w per channel at 1.3 ohm, so bridging it into a 2 ohm sub should net me a little north of 100 wAtts. Not looking for comeptition quality or sound levels, just clean up the sound some and give some more depth to the bottom end. I don't want to entertain the whole neighborhood, but when I turn it up I like it to be clear.

 

[1955moose]

Your sub amp is 20 watts more than the one in my Mach system. If the amp for the sub has speaker connections for bridging, go for it. It should give you 110 watts into the single sub. I was trying to get into Crutchfield but they were too busy. Trying to find out about your factory amp. Call them, their about the most knowledgeable stereo guys I've dealt with. Depending on the size of the 4 channel amp you want to install, you might not be able to fit in stock location below stereo. You might want to see how your new door speakers sound before ditching the ford amp. The biggest weak link are front door speakers. You've got that upgraded with your separates.


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[USMCBuckWild]

Your sub amp is 20 watts more than the one in my Mach system. If the amp for the sub has speaker connections for bridging, go for it. It should give you 110 watts into the single sub. I was trying to get into Crutchfield but they were too busy. Trying to find out about your factory amp. Call them, their about the most knowledgeable stereo guys I've dealt with. Depending on the size of the 4 channel amp you want to install, you might not be able to fit in stock location below stereo. You might want to see how your new door speakers sound before ditching the ford amp. The biggest weak link are front door speakers. You've got that upgraded with your separates.


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The little 4x100 amp is 5" x 5" x 1 1/2".
Should have no issue sneaking it in as there appears to be plenty if space. I do plan on adding a small 12v fan just to keep air moving in there, I have done this with EVERY amp I have ever installed. Better safe than sorry.

 

[USMCBuckWild]

UPDATE:

All Polk door speakers installed (minus the dynomat since it hadn't arrived in time) and they sound AWESOME! I simply hot glued the tweeter in place of the stock ones. Allowed me to orient them a little more for better sound staging.

Sub box was extensively modified and reinforced to accept the slim/shallow mount 12" Pioneer sub. I used the last of the dynomat I had on hand to help with that. Packed the box with some hollowfill as well. Utilized the stock amp, bridged (positive from one channel and negative from the other) and added a small 1" fan I had hanging around.

The stock amp will definately push bridged. Albeit it is only around 100 watts bridged, but it works. Now we know that a single voice coil 2 ohm sub can be pushed efficiently with the stock amp. Keeps things simple. I recommend a high efficiency 2 ohm svc 8" sub in the stock enclosure packed with hollowfill (pillow stuffing) and reinforced with sound dampener while running the stock amp bridged.

I plan on running this for a while until my health improves and I can make a custom fiberglass mold enclosure to house the sub and a more powerful amp.

 

[1955moose]

The fan is always a good idea. My McIntosh amps had one built in, those amps last forever. Believe it or not regular r11 or r19 home insulation is a great sound deadening for woofer boxes. Dynomat gets expensive. Be sure to use a rubber gasket where woofer mounts to box. You should be able to buy one at any shop that sells speakers. The tighter the seal,the better the sound.


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[USMCBuckWild]

My buddy had a McIntosh back inthe day, absolutely outstanding power with a substantial pricetag. The sub has a rubber gasket that wraps around and under. Sealed very well.

The 12 definately has lower tone to it than the stock 8, but certainly requires more power to be substantial. We'll see what we do in the future.

 

[1955moose]

Most subs even an efficient one like pioneer do require at least a good clean 100watts or more. I used to run an eminence 12 inch Sub years back, and I bridged my Alpine 60 watt amp to 120, it sounded pretty decent.


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[USMCBuckWild]

Yup. In my opinion 12s are the best sub, deeper bass than 8 or 10, hit as hard as a 10 if properly setup.

I do have an old school US Amps 100 that will eventually run this 12. That amp is .5 ohm stable, some people have run them successfully at .25 ohm. If I remember correctly that amp will push right around 400 watts bridged at 2 ohms (1 ohm per channel). That should make that 12 thump like a champ. Going to have to make sure I reinforce that fiberglass box! Hahaha

I once used the same single US Amp to run four 12s in a Toyota pick up. Ran that for almost 3 years daily and never had an issue. That was the greatest back massager ever made!!

 

[1955moose]

Your Pioneer sub is only good up to 200 watts. You'll probably have to get a higher watt replacement sub later on, but that's half the fun of it. Seeing what the new speaker sounds like with your old tunes, and a six pack of your favorite suds, to enjoy it with. That's how I've always enjoyed it at least. Just keep that jumper box or extra jumper battery . They always go dead, and nobody wants to jumpstart these days. My extra jumpstart battery and cables, have saved my butt in too many cases. Enjoy!


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[USMCBuckWild]

Your Pioneer sub is only good up to 200 watts. You'll probably have to get a higher watt replacement sub later on, but that's half the fun of it. Seeing what the new speaker sounds like with your old tunes, and a six pack of your favorite suds, to enjoy it with. That's how I've always enjoyed it at least. Just keep that jumper box or extra jumper battery . They always go dead, and nobody wants to jumpstart these days. My extra jumpstart battery and cables, have saved my butt in too many cases. Enjoy!


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Its an older Pioneer, 400 rms/1500 max. So should handle that US Amp with no issue. I justput a new battery in the Expy as well, in hopes to avoid an electrical issues. Stereo equipment is too expensive to play that upgrade game like we used to. Hahaha, at least for me!

 

[1955moose]

That's for sure. Even when I played around with it years back, it was expensive. These days, to buy the good stuff not the China crap it's only for the well healed.


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