Strange power steering leak URGENT

[JColumbus]

Hello,

Please help me. I am taking my family out of town tomorrow and noticed something odd today. I have only had this Expedition for a month, but I bought it as is, from the used car deal. My uncle works their and had everything worked on and checked out, but it's out of his hands now.

So the reason I have not noticed this, is I never had a reason to hold the steering all the war to one side. The guy at the tire shop had me hold the steering wheel all the way to the right, so he can trim a couple inches of plastic off, for the new wheels.

After about 10 seconds of holding it, fluid just started pouring out. It's a very steady pour. It only does this when I hold the steering all the way to one side. So far, that if I let the wheel go, it lets off a couple of inches.

Other than that there are absolutely no leaks and the power steering does not leak when turning, normally, or strait. It doesn't leak at all when it's just sitting in the driveway. When I tested it again, like the first time, it took ten seconds or so, before it started to leak. Then the reservoir went from middle line of max, to about an inch lower.

So in short, it only leaks when the wheel is held all the way to one side, it isn't just a leak but a stream, it doesn't start right away but after 10 or more seconds, regular driving is perfectly fine, including U turns, no noise, no shaking, and I know for sure it is power steering fluid, just can not pin point where it is coming from.

My hunch, not being a mechanic, is that the pressure from turning it so hard, makes it build up. After a few seconds, maybe there is some fail safe measure that allows for it to pour out, so that tubes don't bust under the pressure.

I can't find anything on the internet that supports my hunch, but I also can't find anything that suggests someone else has a similar issue. I am slated to leave in about 12 hours so I will lose a day if I have to take it to a mechanic.

I'm hoping someone will tell me my hunch is right, but with my luck, I am wrong and probably have a serious problem.

Please help. I want to drive safe, so if someone confirms it's a design to prevent tubes from busting, then I will feel good about driving it down and skip the mechanic.

Thanks for any and all help!

 

[stamp11127]

No that isn't part of the design. Don't hold it at the limit. When you hear the pump change it's tune, back off a little.
Hydraulic systems are designed to dump back to the tank, not the ground. All will have a form of pressure release valve to keep pressures within limits. What good is a system without any fluid in it after it leaks all of it out?
If you have a steering box the spindles may have limit screws. If so, check their settings.

 

[Bedrck47]

Agree with stamp11127

The service manual states the following

CAUTION: Do not hold the steering wheel at the stops for an extended amount of time. Damage to the power steering pump can result.

I would suspect that pressure is being built up and leaking past a O Ring

BTW Welcome to the Forum

 

[Bedrck47]

Item Part Number Description

1 3A697 Fluid reservoir
2 3691 Supply hose (reservoir-to-pump)
3 3A713 Return hose (cooler-to-reservoir)
4 3A733 Pulley
5 3A764 Power steering pump
6 3504 Steering gear
7 3A131 Tie-rod end
8 3280 Spindle tie-rod
9 3332 Bellows boot
10 3A713 Return line (gear-to-cooler)
11 3D746 Fluid cooler
12 3A719 Pressure line (pump-to-gear)
13 N802768 Clip
14 9F274 Clip
15 3F886 O-ring (2 required)

 

[JColumbus]

Agree with stamp11127

The service manual states the following

CAUTION: Do not hold the steering wheel at the stops for an extended amount of time. Damage to the power steering pump can result.

I would suspect that pressure is being built up and leaking past a O Ring

BEW Welcome to the Forum

No that isn't part of the design. Don't hold it at the limit. When you hear the pump change it's tune, back off a little.
Hydraulic systems are designed to dump back to the tank, not the ground. All will have a form of pressure release valve to keep pressures within limits. What good is a system without any fluid in it after it leaks all of it out?
If you have a steering box the spindles may have limit screws. If so, check their settings.

Thank you both. Based on your most educated assumptions, and what you think it most likely is, how much do you think it would cost, and how fast do you think it could be done?

Thanks again.


Oh yea, as far as "CAUTION: Do not hold the steering wheel at the stops for an extended amount of time. Damage to the power steering pump can result." I was told to hold it just briefly so the tire guy can cut a couple of inches off of the inside flap. The tires don't rub, but were picking up the inner flaps, in reverse.

 

[Bedrck47]

Just my opinion and based on your post I don't think you have any problem being there are no leaks when the steering is used normally. However I would keep an eye on the fluid level and make sure you carry some extra fluid with you.

When you had the fluid leaking where was it leaking from?
Look at the print and try to give us some idea where.

 

[JColumbus]

Item Part Number Description

1 3A697 Fluid reservoir
2 3691 Supply hose (reservoir-to-pump)
3 3A713 Return hose (cooler-to-reservoir)
4 3A733 Pulley
5 3A764 Power steering pump
6 3504 Steering gear
7 3A131 Tie-rod end
8 3280 Spindle tie-rod
9 3332 Bellows boot
10 3A713 Return line (gear-to-cooler)
11 3D746 Fluid cooler
12 3A719 Pressure line (pump-to-gear)
13 N802768 Clip
14 9F274 Clip
15 3F886 O-ring (2 required)

View attachment 19729

The leak is definitely coming from around where I circled.

 

[JColumbus]

Just my opinion and based on your post I don't think you have any problem being there are no leaks when the steering is used normally. However I would keep an eye on the fluid level and make sure you carry some extra fluid with you.

When you had the fluid leaking where was it leaking from?
Look at the print and try to give us some idea where.

I circled right around where is is coming from. At first I thought it was the bottom of the boot part, but it has to be a little higher because even the pulley gets some on it.

But yea, it doesn't leak even ONE drop when I'm not holding it all the way, which I never do. The fluid level is stable.

I should also add that I called a mechanic that day and he said the pressure increases so much when it's all the way over, that there is a bleed off valve that lets the fluid out, in order to keep a hose from blowing, or anything else getting damaged.

So I was feeling pretty good about that, but I am getting increasingly uneasy, as I will be driving my four children and it just doesn't seem right. If Google was full of posts about bleed off valves, I'd be ok, but I can not find anything on intentional dumping of the fluid, in order to release pressure.

Another thing that has kind of already angered my quite a bit, is that if there is a problem, there is no way the dealership didn't catch it. So I imagine, that if there IS a problem, I'm going to go trough hell trying to get them to do the right thing.

I mean hell... It cost an addition 6 hundred bucks to fix things that needed fixing and he swore to me that he got everything and that this would last at least two year before anything major.

 

[Bedrck47]

If you can check all of the connection fittings to make sure they are tight.

You can check on rock auto and get an idea of the cost of parts.

Also in the future it is always good to post the year of your expy or to create a signature line with that information Year Model engine 4X2 or 4X4

 

[Bedrck47]

The only information I could find in the service manual was the WARNING that I posted earlier. However I didn't read the whole section on the power steering system so I can't say if there is some type of relief valve in the system

 

[JColumbus]

If you can check all of the connection fittings to make sure they are tight.

You can check on rock auto and get an idea of the cost of parts.

Also in the future it is always good to post the year of your expy or to create a signature line with that information Year Model engine 4X2 or 4X4

The only information I could find in the service manual was the WARNING that I posted earlier. However I didn't read the whole section on the power steering system so I can't say if there is some type of relief valve in the system

Oh, sorry about that. I will make sure to do so. It's 04 EB 5.4 4x4.

I think I'm gonna take it to a family owned mechanic near by and get an honest diagnostic. I'm no stranger to having to fix things on cars, but when it's fresh off the lot, I think it's ridiculous that they missed this, if it is indeed a problem.

Any more advice, or thoughts from anyone would be great, but either way, I am going to keep you all posted. If it's something rare or some kind of bleed off valve, hopefully it will help someone else.

 

[stamp11127]

That system may not have the limiting bolts (I still work in the big truck world). There are quite a few parts circled in your reply. Which # is leaking?
The mechanic was talking about the pressure relief valve - should still retain the fluid in the system.
Think of the lawsuits Ford would have if people lost the power steering from dumping fluid.
If it is the rack leaking expect $600-800+ range for parts, labor and alignment. If you go that route change the outer tie rods at the same time.

 

[Bedrck47]

Not sticking up for the dealer But if the service manual warns about holding the steering against the stops for any period of time I would doubt the dealer would do it. They may run it from stop to stop to check for any problems but they may not hold it at the stops as you did.

When you take it to your mechanic explain to him as you did to us what all was done. Also if you can take a copy of the picture that was posted so he can see the area in question

 

[Good as Gold]

Take off the big clamp holding the bellow to the steering rack pull it away from the rack and look if p/s fluid comes out thats your problem. You can use tie raps to secure the bellow back to the steering rack. Hope that helps.....
Best way to find the leak is clean area with brake cleaner have the wife start the truck turn wheel all the way to the left and hold it there while you look with a flash light to see where its leaking then pin point with diagram provided as before for a better diagnosis for the leak.

 

[JColumbus]

That system may not have the limiting bolts (I still work in the big truck world). There are quite a few parts circled in your reply. Which # is leaking?
The mechanic was talking about the pressure relief valve - should still retain the fluid in the system.
Think of the lawsuits Ford would have if people lost the power steering from dumping fluid.
If it is the rack leaking expect $600-800+ range for parts, labor and alignment. If you go that route change the outer tie rods at the same time.

I couldn't pinpoint it cause it was pretty much all over that area and I couldn't tell where it was coming from. Yea the mechanic was talking about that, but he stated it would literally just let it out into the world... Haha sounds funny.

If it's that much to fix, I'm not gonna go down without fighting for the dealer to fix it cause I know that's not something that's happened in the couple of weeks I had it. If it's THAT big a deal, they must have known, and decided to hide it with a temporary fix.

Not sticking up for the dealer But if the service manual warns about holding the steering against the stops for any period of time I would doubt the dealer would do it. They may run it from stop to stop to check for any problems but they may not hold it at the stops as you did.

When you take it to your mechanic explain to him as you did to us what all was done. Also if you can take a copy of the picture that was posted so he can see the area in question

I understand and agree, but keep in mind, I did it ONE time for like 30 seconds just so the tire guy could trim the flap. To be hones, I'm glad he had me turn the wheel cause it showed me this. I am absolutely confident it wasn't because of that ONE time.

Other than that, I did do it a second time when I got home, just to double check and see how long it would take before it started to leak. Sure enough it was about 15-20 seconds, but as soon as I told my wife to let go, the leak stopped fast and completely. No leaks in the last couple of days at all, or before those two times. And that's why this is such an odd thing for me.

As far as what the dealer would do, I bought it through my uncle, who is one of their top salesmen. So I'm fortunate enough that he can simply tell me to take it and they will diagnose it and fix it if it's nothing big. If it's a huge problem, I should be out of luck there, but again, if it's that big an issue, it was that way when they sold it and I'm sure they knew. The mechanic went as far as to guarantee me this thing would be trouble for for at least two years. Now I know things will come up, but nothing in the range stamp mentioned.

So I guess I'll find out by this afternoon, and keep you all posted. Thanks for the diagram. I will definitely utilize it.

 

[JColumbus]

Take off the big clamp holding the bellow to the steering rack pull it away from the rack and look if p/s fluid comes out thats your problem. You can use tie raps to secure the bellow back to the steering rack. Hope that helps.....
Best way to find the leak is clean area with brake cleaner have the wife start the truck turn wheel all the way to the left and hold it there while you look with a flash light to see where its leaking then pin point with diagram provided as before for a better diagnosis for the leak.

Thank you GaG. I'll do that before we get it looked at. I'm usually good at fixing my cars but my tools got stolen and this problem is so strange, I've never heard of circumstantial leaks like this. My experience for power steering has always been it leaks, or it doesn't.

I love this Expedition BTW guys. Coming from a 99 explorer, we feel like we're flying in a private jet.

Now I get to do what I want with the Explorer and have some fun with it before my daughter claims it.




Thanks again guys! I'll check back for more possible input.

 

[Bedrck47]

30 seconds 15-20 seconds In doing some reading I came across the service manual saying no more than 3 to 5 seconds at the stops You above figures are considerable longer. Again let the mechanic that you take it to know all of this information.

 

[JColumbus]

30 seconds 15-20 seconds In doing some reading I cam across the service manual saying no more than 3 to 5 seconds at the stops You above figures are considerable longer. Again let the mechanic that you take it to know all of this information.

Yea... Go figure, the only thing I DIDN'T read was the manual. Lesson for the week.

I'll be giving him as much information as possible.

 

[stamp11127]

You probably blew the seals on the rack. If they don't leak now they will in the future so plan on a replacement down the road. Since it isn't leaking now just carry extra pwr steering fluid as a precaution.

 

[JColumbus]

My wife took it to the mechanic today and said he was so sure it was the rack n pinion, that he didn't even look at it...

This mechanic has been wrong before, but I believe if he feels so sure, maybe it is. So I'm gonna get a second opinion on Monday, and if it IS the rack, the first mechanic quoted us exactly 529, which is exactly what he have left after buying the tires. What a coincidence?

Anyway, this is the first time I've bought a car from a dealer, and the last. Every car I owned was cash off of Craigslist and I made sure all was well and never had any issues. The ONE time I break my rule, because my uncle works there, and BAM...

I was guaranteed 2 years with no problems and they swore they fixed all that needed to be fixed. You thin they knew? Or is it possible he just missed it somehow?

Don't break your own rules fellas.