INFURIATING bearing/tire?? issue

[TORNIT07]

I really hope somebody can help me with this issue. Longish story, I'll try to be as brief as possible. Last fall the left front wheel bearing began to make noise & the ABS & RCS alert lights began to come on/off. I bought a MOOG hub assembly from Rock Auto & installed it a couple months later. The original bearing was definitely shot, no doubt.

Oh, symptoms are: Whining/growling noise from front left wheel, sounds very similar to snow tires...bad when driving straight, worse turning right, goes 100% away turning left. Slight vibration felt in steering wheel. Already swapped tires & noise doesn't follow tire.Begins around 10 mph, WORSE with speed increase and 50 to 54 mph it's loudest. Over 64 mph it's actually a lot quieter. It's a 2007 2 wheel drive. I bought it new, so there is no hidden history.

New bearing made SAME noise & within 100 miles the grease seal was leaking on the backside of the bearing. I exchanged for another MOOG under warranty, installed it and...SAME exact issue right down to the bad grease seal. Now, mind you, I DID torque using a ft.lb torque wrench. I have replaced many a wheel bearing, so, this certainly wasn't my first rodeo, as they say.

Rock auto honored the warranty, but, I opted for a genuine MOTORCRAFT hub assembly this time. I had had my fill with MOOG as I had used their brand lower ball joints & tie rod ends and nothing fit properly. Upon arrival, the MC bearing felt terrible when hand turning it, multiple rough spots. Rock Auto said they spoke with a Ford parts rep & was told this was "normal" for a new bearing not under load. I have never had a new bearing feel like that, but, against my better judgement went ahead & installed it.

SAME issue. SAME noise.Lights still on dash. BTW, I did inspect passenger side bearing while replacing lower ball joints a month prior...smooth, tight & quiet. So, I returned the MC bearing, bought a DURALAST from AutoZone....SAME issue! Also, the DL had the EXACT same part # as the MOOG's. I suspect maybe made in same place?

I was at wits end, in between, I also had front end alignment & installed a set of Michillens I bought from a buddy. They had 30,000 miles on them, lots of good tread. I purchased a TRW hub assembly from RA, BTW, all the assemblies included a new ABS sensor.SAME noise. So, Ive been driving it like this OVER 10,000 miles now. It's gotten ever so slightly worse.

I know upper balljoints are slightly worn, but haven't replaced yet. I'm really at a loss here at what this is. The noise is driving me INSANE!

 

[ExpeditionAndy]

Are you running stock tires and wheels or are they oversize?

 

[TORNIT07]

Had stock tires when problem began. Then ran on the spare for a short while because left front tire wore down terribly due to lower ball joints & alignment....belts were showing. Stock was 255/70 -18 inch rims. The tires on it now are either 265/70 or 265/75.....0r 65. I'll have to go look in the daylight. But, still same 18 inch stock rims. Tire guy said no problem running these, all clearances are fine. Noise was with every single tire...three different ones.

Like I said, I even swapped it out with rear tire, noise stayed right there. I can't believe it's still a bearing issue...maybe never was, even though the original bearing was shot, perhaps that wasn't the cause of the noise...I will mention this: After alignment, the caster/camber readings are not equal on front tires. They are as follows:
RIGHT FRONT CAMBER: -0.4*
RIGHT FRONT CASTER: 4.3*

LEFT FRONT CAMBER: -0.8*
LEFT FRONT CASTER: 4.1*

TOE is 0.03* both sides with 0.05* TOTAL TOE & STEER AHEAD 0.00*

The caster & camber concern me. While the numbers are close, and "within spec" according to the alignment guy, looking at the actual position on the print out of what those numbers indicate it seems as if the tires would be fighting one another. But, when it comes to alignment angles & all, I really don't have enough knowledge to say whether I'm right or wrong.

I know the upper ball joints have some slop, but not too much, I have to replace the whole upper control arm assemblies when I replace the strut assemblies in the next few weeks. Then, I'll be taking it to a different alignment shop. MAYBE the issue will resolve itself then. I sure would like to figure out exactly what it is prior to that.

All the joy of driving my expy is gone because of that horrid noise...so loud!

 

[Big Brian]

if the upper ball joints have "some slop" then the alignment is meaningless. Not saying that the noise problem but everything needs to be tight for a proper alignment

when I ran a alignment rack for a living I would not do an alignment with loose parts

 

[TORNIT07]

if the upper ball joints have "some slop" then the alignment is meaningless. Not saying that the noise problem but everything needs to be tight for a proper alignment

when I ran a alignment rack for a living I would not do an alignment with loose parts

I agree 100%. I knew the alignment wouldn't be the best, but, because of new tie rod ends & lower ball joints, I needed it at least close to keep my tires from wearing prematurely. I told the alignment tech about the uppers, and he said he could still align it if they were within "spec".

When it came down off rack & I went to pay, I was told that the alignment tech didn't have to adjust caster/camber, that it was "fine". Yet, the measurement before and after were WAY different on caster/camber...adjusting toe shouldn't affect C & C....right?

I know, adjusting caster/camber is not easy on the '07 expy...unless a Caster/Camber Adjusting Bolt Kit is installed. I think I will order a set & install when I do struts & upper control arms. I want the best alignment possible after I complete the front end repairs. It's difficult to find an alignment shop that actually does a proper alignment, around these parts, anyway.

Having been an alignment tech, in your experience/opinion, COULD bad caster/camber cause the kind of noise I am experiencing? If it were a bearing, I would think with over 10,000+ miles it would be WAY worse by now. If not falling apart? All the bearings I've ever replaced, and I have replaced a lot, would get progressively worse and very rapidly if not replaced in a timely manner.

 

[Big Brian]

correct setting the toe wont change the caster / camber. Camber can affect toe, thats why first you adjust caster/camber and toe last

what you got we called a "set the toe and let it go"

the only thing alignment wise that could cause the noise is if the camber and or toe was WAY off the caster isnt a tire wearing angle, just for directional control only

the easiest way to explain caster is think of a bicycle front wheel. the steering tube pivot is your upper ball joint, the wheel axle is the lower ball joint.

The axle is always in front the upper pivot, thats how you are able to ride a bike no handed

same principle for a auto

I highly highly doubt your noise has anything to do with the alignment

 

[Big Brian]

to check for a noisy bearing

jack up and take off the offending side wheel

take the caliper off (recommended)or at least push the piston back so that the rotor can spin freely with no pads rubbing it

then spin the hub and check for noise. Sometimes a stethoscope can help isolate. Then do the other side to compare the noise emitted. You should be able to tell if there is a noisy bearing. Sometimes it will only show up when the bearing is loaded but you can usually tell

 

[The Swagonmaster]

You don't have a 4x4 do You? A bad c/v joint could cause noise and vibration if it is bad enough but surely any tech would pick up on that.

 

[ExpeditionAndy]

The OP said that he already replaced several different bad bearings on that wheel. He doesn't understand why it's happening. The original post said the bearings only last a short time, then they start making noise and the rear seals go out on them. It almost sounds like the hub assembly is mismatched.

 

[Big Brian]

...and he has 2WD

I dont know about it being mismatched but its a remote possibility that the steering knuckle is damaged somehow

 

[ExpeditionAndy]

...and he has 2WD

I dont know about it being mismatched but its a remote possibility that the steering knuckle is damaged somehow

I meant to say misaligned - thought one thing typed another - story of my life.

 

[TORNIT07]

correct setting the toe wont change the caster / camber. Camber can affect toe, thats why first you adjust caster/camber and toe last

what you got we called a "set the toe and let it go"

the only thing alignment wise that could cause the noise is if the camber and or toe was WAY off the caster isnt a tire wearing angle, just for directional control only

the easiest way to explain caster is think of a bicycle front wheel. the steering tube pivot is your upper ball joint, the wheel axle is the lower ball joint.

The axle is always in front the upper pivot, thats how you are able to ride a bike no handed

same principle for a auto

I highly highly doubt your noise has anything to do with the alignment

Toe & go....EXACTLY what I got!
After I replace the upper control arm/ball joint assemblies, and complete strut assemblies, I'm going to really need to find a shop that will do a proper alignment. I would say dealership, but, have had them really screw up on my front end in the past...I imagine a full, proper alignment will be more than the $60.00 I paid the last time!

 

[TORNIT07]

The OP said that he already replaced several different bad bearings on that wheel. He doesn't understand why it's happening. The original post said the bearings only last a short time, then they start making noise and the rear seals go out on them. It almost sounds like the hub assembly is mismatched.

The first two bearings made noise right from GO! But, the rear seals began to leak within a week or so...both were MOOG's. Then, MOTORCRAFT, which was faulty, as I could feel a couple flat/rough spots turning by hand. Was told this was "normal" even though I know better, but, installed it and no good...noise from day one. Also, ABS and RCS lights come on 98% of the time since this issue began. Next, a DURALAST bearing, which had exact same part number as the MOOG's...noise/dash lights from day one. Now, I have a TIMKIN hub assembly....same darn problem. I haven't attempted to return it to Rock Auto as yet, because I no longer know if that's the issue or not. How can FIVE bearings all be defective...although, three in a row obviously were. The MOOG's & MC bearings.

With the DURALAST having same number as the MOOG's....could it have rolled off the same assembly line & be defective? But, the TIMKIN seems to be a high quality bearing/hub assembly. Made in the USA unlike all the others. I will report this, the vibration/noise has now begun to get worse...I can definitely feel it in the brake pedal AND steering wheel. The noise at 50 mph makes my ears ring! I have to keep it below 48 mph or over 54 mph.

I also considered what you said, about the hub assembly being misaligned somehow. But, I torqued it proper and true each time. I am thinking, I will swap the hub assembly from passenger side and see if noise goes with the hub....if so, then by golly, it IS the bearing. If not, then my issue is something else. Yes, I think I will do this.

 

[TORNIT07]

to check for a noisy bearing

jack up and take off the offending side wheel

take the caliper off (recommended)or at least push the piston back so that the rotor can spin freely with no pads rubbing it

then spin the hub and check for noise. Sometimes a stethoscope can help isolate. Then do the other side to compare the noise emitted. You should be able to tell if there is a noisy bearing. Sometimes it will only show up when the bearing is loaded but you can usually tell

I'm going to do one better, unless, when I get the rotor/caliper off it's apparent that the bearing is bad. I'm going to swap the passenger side hub assembly with the driver side. They are interchangeable...if noise follows, bearing IS bad. If not....next?

 

[TORNIT07]

You don't have a 4x4 do You? A bad c/v joint could cause noise and vibration if it is bad enough but surely any tech would pick up on that.

No. 2WD.

 

[TORNIT07]

...and he has 2WD

I dont know about it being mismatched but its a remote possibility that the steering knuckle is damaged somehow

This is another thought that has gone through my head. All the roads around here are undergoing major construction, lots of deep pot holes and I've hit a few. But, can the knuckle actually be damaged by a pot hole? I can see a lower CA, or other "soft" component, but, the knuckle is thick, solid...what...steel, IDK.

 

[ExpeditionAndy]

I also considered what you said, about the hub assembly being misaligned somehow. But, I torqued it proper and true each time. I am thinking, I will swap the hub assembly from passenger side and see if noise goes with the hub....if so, then by golly, it IS the bearing. If not, then my issue is something else. Yes, I think I will do this.

That problem is just so weird. Well if you switch the hub to the other side and the problem moves that that might indicate hub but if it stays on the the left then maybe that indicates that the knuckle is bent warped, drilled wrong or something. It just shouldn't be that hard to solve.

The other thing that it sounds like is you have a harmonic vibration of some sort, which is why it is worse at certain speeds. The other thing that you said is when you turn left the noise goes away and that makes me think that you are unloading the bearing by de compressing it takes some of the slop out of it. Maybe the bearing isn't fitting correctly in the raceway and it's a little tight?

Good bearing should roll very smoothly and have absolutely no roughness to them. They are supposed to be precision made.

Again, just something else to think about.

 

[Big Brian]

to check for a bent steering knuckle, have the alignment shop check for SAI

this means steering axis inclination, they measure the geometry of the front wheels as they are turned lock-to-lock.

I think this is probably rarely done anymore as I have not done an alignment in probably 15 years.

This is usually done for problems with steering pull or odd wearing tires, neither or which you have

I was thinking more about the bearing assembly mount in the knuckle as being a possible problem

I just mentioned SAI because its interesting.

swapping the hub assembly side to side is a good idea.

Also bearing assembly's feeling rough right out of the box is not an abnormal thing. Sometimes the bearings need to break in, what I mean by that is they have to seat in the races and also the grease can settle depending on how long its been sitting on a shelf, I would not say one is bad just by feeling it after taking it out of the box

like I said I would take the caliper off and just spin the hub, if the bearing is bad you will know it

 

[TORNIT07]

That problem is just so weird. Well if you switch the hub to the other side and the problem moves that that might indicate hub but if it stays on the the left then maybe that indicates that the knuckle is bent warped, drilled wrong or something. It just shouldn't be that hard to solve.

The other thing that it sounds like is you have a harmonic vibration of some sort, which is why it is worse at certain speeds. The other thing that you said is when you turn left the noise goes away and that makes me think that you are unloading the bearing by de compressing it takes some of the slop out of it. Maybe the bearing isn't fitting correctly in the raceway and it's a little tight?

Good bearing should roll very smoothly and have absolutely no roughness to them. They are supposed to be precision made.

Again, just something else to think about.

"Harmonic vibration"....yes, that is exactly the word I couldn't recall at time of posting, but that is exactly right. Turning left with sound going away is classic bearing failure...at least in my experiences. It's been raining pretty steady here the past couple days, so haven't gone out to swap bearings yet.

Oh, I posted that the Michelin's were 265's....no. They are 275/65/18 LTX--AT-2 where OEM were 255/70/18
Only reason I didn't go back with stock size was because I got such a super deal on this set from a....friend.

 

[TORNIT07]

to check for a bent steering knuckle, have the alignment shop check for SAI

this means steering axis inclination, they measure the geometry of the front wheels as they are turned lock-to-lock.

If I haven't resolved the problem by alignment time, I will request they check this for sure.