Paint Bubbling, We need EVERYONE to register a complaint! READ FORDS RESPONSE!!!

[Plati]

I am sure that is clear coated or anodized or something

cant be raw aluminum

Could be untouched aluminum, if it was buffed the day before. Obviously will oxidize rapidly unless sealed. Cool pictures though thank you Flex. Sema 2017

Driving it like that might be an issue with glare! Reminds me of my western red cedar deck, beautiful for a few weeks then starts turning grey. You can seal it but then you have to redo that every year.

 

[Flexpedition]

I've owned a mostly polished raw aluminum airplane (Luscombe Silvaire 8E) for going on 20 years, my dads has owned several polished aircraft for over 50. Upkeep polishing is regular to keep a mirror finish, but zero corrosion, oxidation or any issues. Full buff every 3-5 years, somewhere along those lines. I've never seen a clear coated polished airplane, but I'm sure they are out there.

Very seldom do you ever see a Airstream or Spartan travel trailer that is clear coated, but when you do its easy to spot clearcoat, no matter the brand or application ritual, it always has a milky, semi transparent finish. Sometimes with a yellow hue. Seems like a perfect way to ruin such hard work.

When American Airlines flew a polished fleet, none were cleared. Same with semi truck fuel tanks, front grills, battery boxes, wheels, and gasoline transport semi trailers. My car hauler and utility trailer are both aluminum, neither cleared. Most of my pots and pans in the kitchen, no clearcoat. My truck tool box (diamond plate) is not cleared.

Most of what I mentioned is Alclad finished 2024 or maybe 3003. Boats are commonly 5052, especially for sea water. I'd be shocked if Ford wasn't using Alclad 2024 on our trucks. Take some Never Dull to a beer can and you'd be shocked.

The above 2018 has stainless steel looking grain lines scratched into the surface, probably to help with glare or to add to the shock factor.

 

[Plati]

nice, interesting info
i guess not all aluminum is created equal



This is a highly pitted/corroded "paint bubbling area" from my 2003 XLT tailgate

 

[LJ4174]

So does this happen on the Navigators as well?

 

[theoldwizard1]

So does this happen on the Navigators as well?

Yes !

 

[Muddy Bean]

Great info flex. I remembered there were different grades of aluminum when I wen searching for aluminum sheets to side my coach Bus. I have thousands of dollars of aluminum on my coach. I also have Alcoa aluminum rims that I have to keep polished constantly but if I stay on top of it they look amazing. So I suppose you could polish your aluminum hood and stay on it and it would look good. I have used wax on my rims to seal them and the shine lasts longer.


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[theoldwizard1]

There are not different "grades" of aluminum, just different alloys. The 4 numbers (6061, 6063, 5052, 2024, etc) describe how much of other metals are added to pure aluminum to achieve certain properties.

After the aluminum is formed into something (slabs, rods, cast parts, etc) Then most aluminum alloys under go a heat treatment process. This an addition letter and number(s) added to the end of the alloy (like T6). Finally, some aluminum receives a chemical coating/dip called "pickling" in the industry.

Of course the last step is cleaning, primer and paint done by the purchaser of the aluminum part.

Ford was well aware of the problems with aluminum hoods and tailgates. It has always been my belief that these parts were made by a supplier and they did not use the best cleaning and primer before the paint was applied.

The aluminum panels used in the F150/250 and the new Expedition/Navigator use different alloys, heat treatment and "pickling" developed by Alcoa.

 

[LJ4174]

I'm currently looking for an Expedition or a Navigator, going to look at 2 this week and hopefully bringing one home so I can go back to living my life without spending hours looking and researching! Not that, that isn't fun... As a "for instance" - the 2 I'm looking at this week are a 2012 and a 2014 - "IF" they don't have any paint issues now at this point, should I still expect it? Is it only a matter or time or since these are 4-6 years old, if it hasn't shown itself yet, will it?

 

[theoldwizard1]

"IF" they don't have any paint issues now at this point, should I still expect it? Is it only a matter or time or since these are 4-6 years old, if it hasn't shown itself yet, will it?

No guarantee, but likely not.

 

[Plati]

...I'm looking at this week are a 2012 and a 2014 - "IF" they don't have any paint issues now at this point, should I still expect it? Is it only a matter or time or since these are 4-6 years old, if it hasn't shown itself yet, will it?

IMHO ... you should EXPECT it to happen, even if it has not happened yet. That way when it does, you dont poop your pants!

This is what my 2014 EL looks like, which is not what it looked like a year ago .. I do not think (not certain). Which by the way SUCKS


Maybe there is a "model year" when the problem ceased to exist?
Does anyone know this?

 

[theoldwizard1]

Maybe there is a "model year" when the problem ceased to exist?
Does anyone know this?

2018MY

 

[mjp2]

That is actually kind of cool, but the problem is unless you clearcoat it, that aluminum is going to oxidize badly. And a relatively short amount of time too. If you clearcoat it the steel that is compromising the aluminum panels in the problem trucks is still there and going to cause galvanic corrosion which will cause the clearcoat to peel and you’re in the same position as before. At least that is my theory. Might be complete hogwash.


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You're spot on. I just came back from the local body shop (VERY highly rated, certified by all the manufacturers to do repairs, and they have a separate building specifically for aluminum work so nothing gets contaminated) and before we even got to my truck the estimator said "If you're here for the hood and liftgate, they cannot be fixed."

He went through the whole galvanic corrosion thing, explaining that the panels are contaminated from the factory and that Ford refuses to do anything about it, etc. He said after full stripping and prep, best case scenario is a year before it starts bubbling again. I asked about options and he said the only option is replacement, but that's with another likely-contaminated factory piece even brand new.

I asked about powdercoat or fiberglass as options and he said they'll all bubble because of the powder that's forming underneath.

I was genuinely excited to get the truck looking good again and am now feeling a bit deflated.

At this point I'm not opposed to using white bedliner as a solution. Has anyone come up with anything that actually works?

 

[JExpedition07]

2018MY

Incorrect, the TSB extends from 2000-2018 F-150 and Expedition vehicles.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Incorrect, the TSB extends from 2000-2018 F-150 and Expedition vehicles.

But paint bubbling on aluminum panels is covered since 2016MY.

 

[theoldwizard1]

He went through the whole galvanic corrosion thing, explaining that the panels are contaminated from the factory and that Ford refuses to do anything about it, etc. He said after full stripping and prep, best case scenario is a year before it starts bubbling again.

That does not seem logical to me ! If you remove all paint, primer, trim and other hardware and then properly prepare the bare aluminum surface it should last a lot longer than 1 year !

 

[Muddy Bean]

That does not seem logical to me ! If you remove all paint, primer, trim and other hardware and then properly prepare the bare aluminum surface it should last a lot longer than 1 year !

Thanks for correcting me on “verbiage”. Alloys not grades. Sorry. As for the corrosion thing you’re incorrect, it’s not fixable. The panels have steel contamination in them. You can’t remove it. It’s somehow impregnated into the aluminum. But if you want to waste your money, go for it. But some chemical engineers have already researched this and indeed it’s not easily fixable. In fact I wish someone just made steel replacement hoods and liftgates because that would be the solution. Or clean aluminum replacements. But that won’t happen.


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[Drae]

I also have the paint bubbling on my hood and have been searching for a fiberglass or steel replacement. Well I searched a little harder and found this...

They also claim to have aluminum replacements but I will be after the steel ASAP!

 

[JExpedition07]

But paint bubbling on aluminum panels is covered since 2016MY.

Yeah but that only is for the short term corrosion warranty, maybe can get it fixed once. Once that is out you’re SOL.

 

[powerboatr]

Thanks for correcting me on “verbiage”. Alloys not grades. Sorry. As for the corrosion thing you’re incorrect, it’s not fixable. The panels have steel contamination in them. You can’t remove it. It’s somehow impregnated into the aluminum. But if you want to waste your money, go for it. But some chemical engineers have already researched this and indeed it’s not easily fixable. In fact I wish someone just made steel replacement hoods and liftgates because that would be the solution. Or clean aluminum replacements. But that won’t happen.


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he is wrong
I am a certificated corrosion/airframe tech for over 40 years, on aircraft, which are chocked full of all kinds of different metals and non metals, yes non metals can cause corrosion to start.
you can remove any and all cross contamination from the alum. then treat, prime and paint and expect good results.
but
the alum needs to be blasted with glass beads, thoroughly rinsed then treated with an etching material , primed and painted. then any item that is attached to it shall be sealed to prevent the ferrous metal from making direct contact with the alum. this part is often not done correctly or at all by repair shops or techs, as it takes time
we did this on alum, magnesium and other noble metals to ensure long life and no galvanic or dissimilar corrosion

the picture with bubbling i bet the issue started when the steal fastener was put through the alum skin and failure of a seal coating or lack thereof caused the reaction to start.

to note my 2016 expy with 23k miles just got waxed and detailed by me over the last two days...I have zero bubbling and or corrosion on my vehicle.
but i dont take it to the beach or drive in snowy regions.
but it was exposed for three days of high winds and salt water this pas December at corpus Christi bay , it go washed real good when we got home. no issues.

 

[Muddy Bean]

Are any of you corrosion techs really
Researching this issue? There isn’t a fix. Several people have had redos and the fixes failed. It has nothing to do with steel fasteners. It’s well know you can’t use steel fasteners in aluminum. When ford stamped the panels they accidentally introduced steel contamination into the aluminum. No one has been able to successfully repaint these pieces with long term success. Just because your 2016 doesn’t have issues yet doesn’t mean it won’t. My 2015 with 83,000 miles on it doesn’t have issues yet either but I have no doubt they will surface eventually. Not knocking your skills or experience but take someone’s messed up hood and liftgate, Fix it permanently, and you’ll have my respect.

That steel hood for sale online, is that completely legit? That would be an easy and cheap solution.


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